2.4 Inlet General 2.4 Inlet Manifold Questions
- Thread starter alanoo
- Start date
its too close to the throttle body for my liking,
i admit the one i made at the weekend was nothing short of a bodge, but was traced from the diagram (i only used the ecu part, seems a bit overkill the throttle body part - theres 3 mounts anyway )
when we fitted it, the ecu was too close to the throttle body spindle, luckily i made it from .9 alumiunium plate so just had to bend everything around to fit
i think theres some pics earlier in the thread where you can see where the issue lies.
i admit the one i made at the weekend was nothing short of a bodge, but was traced from the diagram (i only used the ecu part, seems a bit overkill the throttle body part - theres 3 mounts anyway )
when we fitted it, the ecu was too close to the throttle body spindle, luckily i made it from .9 alumiunium plate so just had to bend everything around to fit
i think theres some pics earlier in the thread where you can see where the issue lies.
Lightning Coupé
Senior Member
The fault dosent really have any pattern. At one point i could repeatedly rev it fast and hard right to the limmit and no ight came on. I thought id got around the fault but then it came back when holding the revs steady at about 3500rpm. Reset the ecu and very slowely crept the throttle right up to the limmit with no fault, reved it back and forth a little and it came back. Reset it about 20 times and tryed diffrent things. No real pattern other than it never came on when idle, only 3000rpm + and not all the tme. We also checked the feedback position of the tb, couldnt find any fault there either. I'm confident that the problem is the MAP table as mark has already identified, 30kpa out of tolerance and a fault is triggered, end off story imo
I can only assume that vockys 68mm setup is ok becouse of the state of engine tune. Geoff who is also running a 68mm TB with no problems has a standard manifold and the standard airbox which may be restrictive enough to reduce the air flow and maintain a little more vacume? I dunno dunno..
I can only assume that vockys 68mm setup is ok becouse of the state of engine tune. Geoff who is also running a 68mm TB with no problems has a standard manifold and the standard airbox which may be restrictive enough to reduce the air flow and maintain a little more vacume? I dunno dunno..
vocky
Staff
when I made an inlet manifold I had the same problem with the 68mm tb
what about adding a length of pipe to the map sensor to slow down the pulses, so it's fitted remotely dunno..
my vectra had the standard air box with the 68mm tb and my vx220 has a one metre long intake pipe with a cone filter at the end, maybe it's the sudden change causing the issue notsure.gif
what about adding a length of pipe to the map sensor to slow down the pulses, so it's fitted remotely dunno..
my vectra had the standard air box with the 68mm tb and my vx220 has a one metre long intake pipe with a cone filter at the end, maybe it's the sudden change causing the issue notsure.gif
Lightning Coupé
Senior Member
Hmm, Thats certainly something to try out :? Might give it a go later in the week. I can easily add another T into the servo vac pipe and stick it there. perhaps tomorrow ill try it.
just as a matter of interest did you get/use the map sensor supplied with the 2.4 manifold ? or didnt you get one and are using the 2.2 map sensor ? or are they the same ?
p4cks manifold came with it however i swapped it out for the 2.2 part
not sure if the numbers are the same notsure.gif
p4cks manifold came with it however i swapped it out for the 2.2 part
not sure if the numbers are the same notsure.gif
markv
Regular Member
About the 1514 code occuring, take a look at this:
http://www.speedsterclub.nl/bibliotheek ... ecodes.pdf
So it will occur when:
(Measured MAP) - (Throttle position estimated MAP) > 30kPascal
And the conditions for it occuring are:
* Engine is running
* RPM is higher then 600
* No throttle actuation fault codes
* Both TPS/Vref circuit fault codes are not set
* No ECU processor fault codes
So basically parameters are pretty wide and not specifically for high RPM's.
Also, from this you would conclude that the ECU has some kind of table with the throttle position value and what MAP to expect. So changing that table should make this problem go away. Silly work around would be to put the expected MAP at 100 (so atmospheric) and this fault will never occur. But don't know if that would trigger another fault
On the part of the MAP sensors, I tried both the new one that came with the 2.4 manifold and the original one I had in the 2.2 manifold. I got the faultcodes with both sensors (using the 68mm 2.4 TB)
When going back to my original 58mm TB all problems disappeared. When I placed my freshly ported 58mm TB on the car I had the same problem as with the 68mm 2.4 TB (have to say I really did some extreme porting on the TB I think ).
Mark
http://www.speedsterclub.nl/bibliotheek ... ecodes.pdf
So it will occur when:
(Measured MAP) - (Throttle position estimated MAP) > 30kPascal
And the conditions for it occuring are:
* Engine is running
* RPM is higher then 600
* No throttle actuation fault codes
* Both TPS/Vref circuit fault codes are not set
* No ECU processor fault codes
So basically parameters are pretty wide and not specifically for high RPM's.
Also, from this you would conclude that the ECU has some kind of table with the throttle position value and what MAP to expect. So changing that table should make this problem go away. Silly work around would be to put the expected MAP at 100 (so atmospheric) and this fault will never occur. But don't know if that would trigger another fault
On the part of the MAP sensors, I tried both the new one that came with the 2.4 manifold and the original one I had in the 2.2 manifold. I got the faultcodes with both sensors (using the 68mm 2.4 TB)
When going back to my original 58mm TB all problems disappeared. When I placed my freshly ported 58mm TB on the car I had the same problem as with the 68mm 2.4 TB (have to say I really did some extreme porting on the TB I think
).Mark
Lightning Coupé
Senior Member
Thanks Mark! You've really hit the nail on the head with that data! What kind of air filter and induction piping are you running out of intrest?
markv
Regular Member
I'm running with a BMC filter connected with a piece of sewerpipe to the TB
For pics see:
http://www.verboom.net/projects/speedst ... index.html
Works pretty well. Didn't make any difference on the stock engine (this was my first mod to the engine), but love the sound
Mark
For pics see:
http://www.verboom.net/projects/speedst ... index.html
Works pretty well. Didn't make any difference on the stock engine (this was my first mod to the engine), but love the sound
Mark
Maybe some confusion regarding all the vacuum pipes going here and there is due to the fact that there were actually two mods described at the same time(?). Let's see if I got it right (assumes a vx220, probably applies to the rest you as well)...:
2.4 manifold mod:
1. The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) pipe (metal pipe with a braided cover) going from the engine block to the old manifold - gets removed without replacement (the EGR outlet on the engine block needs blocking).
2. The vacuum hose from 2.2 inlet manifold to brake booster - fits to 2.2 manifold and is a straight move to the 2.4 manifold.
3. The (thinner) vacuum hose from 2.2 manifold to the big mess of piping at the fuel refill cap - fits to 2.2 as well as 2.4 manifold.
If you do only the 2.4 inlet manifold mod all original vacuum pipes are a straight swap from old to new manifold. I believe this is the way markv did it (although he has replaced the original inlet tube for a larger white one).
If you do the fpr mod as well there is more to do:
Fuel pressure regulation (fpr) mod:
4. The short and thin vacuum pipe between the fuel rail (to which the injectors are fitted) and the "air feed tube" that goes from the air filter box to throttle body - instead of letting the fuel rail pick up vacuum on this tube it can be picked up directly from the 2.2 inlet manifold. Since the 2.4 mani doesn't have any place to connect this vacuum pipe, you can pick up vacuum from the brake booster vacuum pipe - hence the need for a way to join the fpr-pipe to the brake booster pipe using a three way fitting that also happens to have a one-way valve in it. Alternatively, you could probably modify the 2.4 inlet manifold in order to fit the fpr-vacuum hose directly to it, just like to the 2.2 mani.
HTH
2.4 manifold mod:
1. The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) pipe (metal pipe with a braided cover) going from the engine block to the old manifold - gets removed without replacement (the EGR outlet on the engine block needs blocking).
2. The vacuum hose from 2.2 inlet manifold to brake booster - fits to 2.2 manifold and is a straight move to the 2.4 manifold.
3. The (thinner) vacuum hose from 2.2 manifold to the big mess of piping at the fuel refill cap - fits to 2.2 as well as 2.4 manifold.
If you do only the 2.4 inlet manifold mod all original vacuum pipes are a straight swap from old to new manifold. I believe this is the way markv did it (although he has replaced the original inlet tube for a larger white one).
If you do the fpr mod as well there is more to do:
Fuel pressure regulation (fpr) mod:
4. The short and thin vacuum pipe between the fuel rail (to which the injectors are fitted) and the "air feed tube" that goes from the air filter box to throttle body - instead of letting the fuel rail pick up vacuum on this tube it can be picked up directly from the 2.2 inlet manifold. Since the 2.4 mani doesn't have any place to connect this vacuum pipe, you can pick up vacuum from the brake booster vacuum pipe - hence the need for a way to join the fpr-pipe to the brake booster pipe using a three way fitting that also happens to have a one-way valve in it. Alternatively, you could probably modify the 2.4 inlet manifold in order to fit the fpr-vacuum hose directly to it, just like to the 2.2 mani.
HTH
vocky
Staff
1. egr pipe needs removing and blanking plate fitted
2. the brake servo vacuum hose is reconnected to the 2.4 manifold (large - 13mm)
3. the fuel vent valve (plastic) vacuum pipe is reconnected to the 2.4 manifold (medium - 10mm)
3A. the fuel pressure regulator vacuum pipe can be reconnected to the intake pipe (small - 4mm)
the fpr mod
4. the brake servo vacuum pipe one way valve is replaced with one which has an extra take off, then the fpr small 4mm pipe is connected to the new valve
2. the brake servo vacuum hose is reconnected to the 2.4 manifold (large - 13mm)
3. the fuel vent valve (plastic) vacuum pipe is reconnected to the 2.4 manifold (medium - 10mm)
3A. the fuel pressure regulator vacuum pipe can be reconnected to the intake pipe (small - 4mm)
the fpr mod
4. the brake servo vacuum pipe one way valve is replaced with one which has an extra take off, then the fpr small 4mm pipe is connected to the new valve
Jase_MK
Member
Does this look right for the suppressor?
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ ... e=BRICD-01
I'm not electrically minded so unsure whether it needs to be specififcally rated or whether any old alternator suppressor will do.
Ta!
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ ... e=BRICD-01
I'm not electrically minded so unsure whether it needs to be specififcally rated or whether any old alternator suppressor will do.
Ta!
I just got an 100amp alternator from a new 2.2 Vectra from a scrap yard. Cost me £50 (trade price is £160 apparently). It's a real pain to get out though. On the photos you can't see the marking saying 100 amp but you can just about see it with the naked eye. It was fitted in with Torq bits.
So from my experience, 100 amp ones have:
black plastic pulley
5mm of black plastic on the pulley furthest from the alternator itself
Torq bolts
A gap between the inlet manifold and the alternator
http://www.muncher.org.uk/alternator
Oh, and I'm not sure if measuring them is entirely accurate as one of the pics above, of what I think is a 120amp one has the same measurement at "x" of my 100 amp one.
So from my experience, 100 amp ones have:
black plastic pulley
5mm of black plastic on the pulley furthest from the alternator itself
Torq bolts
A gap between the inlet manifold and the alternator
http://www.muncher.org.uk/alternator
Oh, and I'm not sure if measuring them is entirely accurate as one of the pics above, of what I think is a 120amp one has the same measurement at "x" of my 100 amp one.
