Removing Balance Shafts

Muncher83

blue se2 said:
Just drop it out paul you'll regret it later if you don't do it know while the car is of the road.

True but I can't see how to do it, short of lifting the engine out of the top somehow.

This is a pic from when I can the subframe off, I think you can see from this that even if I lowered the engine, I'm not going to get it low enough for the shaft on the intake side to slide out past the chassis.

Steve_Crisp

I see the problem Paul, and I guess the removal-kit would've probably answered the problem as you can slot the bits into the hole each item at a time BUT it looks like the real problem is getting the old balnce-shaft out!

I guess that craps on the idea of an "in-situ" removal kit?

Rgds,

Steve

Steve_Crisp

Do you think the old shaft can be removed if you pull it half-way out and cut it in half to remove it?

Rgds,

Steve

Muncher83

Steve Crisp said:
Do you think the old shaft can be removed if you pull it half-way out and cut it in half to remove it?

Rgds,

Steve

Ahhh, that's not a bad idea but would mean being very careful not to get loads of swarf inside the engine. I guess vocky can answer this, how easy are they to cut? I have a decent jigsaw that may get through them.

In terms of knocking them back in I may be able to do it using some flexy joints on the socket bar, to allow the bar itself to be at a bit of an angle. But this depends on the hole being a pretty much straight tube to allow it to line up with the bearings. I'd also need to know how much margin of error there is with the 7.5mm they need to be knocked in and how much force is required to knock them in as I won't be able to get a clean swing of a hammer at them, would be more a case of tapping a bar with a flexy joint in it at an angle.

vocky

there is no more than 1mm error with the bearings :roll:

and they need a heavy whack just to move them a single mm :?

it's going to be an engine out job 🙁

Muncher83

OK, looks like they'll be staying put then. I need to keep things moving and get the car home and into the garage before the gazeebo completely falls to bits. Plus I don't have an engine crane etc

Steve_Crisp

I still have faith in an in-situ kit, but the old shaft will need removing by chopping it up with an off-end grinder. You can control where the cuttings go pretty-well and shield the engine by various means.

Rgds,

Steve

Muncher83

Your in situ kit if I remember rightly was to have a bar running down the centre of where the balance shaft used to go? If it does, you won't be able to get that in there. In fact I don't think there's any way to do it in situ if you need to locate something accurately at the far end of where the shaft used to be.

Steve_Crisp

How much space would I have? Any chance of a closer picture of the space available?
notsure.gif
Steve

Muncher83

I'll take one tomorrow. Put it this way, if you were to slide the intake shaft out, it would come out about 3 inches, similar for the exhaust. Yet you need about 18 inches I guess to get it out and slide anything down there.

Muncher83

On the TIS CD replacement of balancer shaft not just referred to as an engine out job, the title to the section says "Balance chaft replace (Engine Removed)"

OAKMERE

Was just thinking about this problem yesterday (always dangerous) to try and solve this problem by a different approach. What about leaving the balance shafts in place and either change the sprockets to be on independent bearings or re-route the chain to bypass the sprockets completely? Thereby negating the need to remove the original shafts???

Just a thought

Cheers Oakmere

vocky

or cut them up to remove them

then fit a blanking collet to the rear bearings dunno..

then idler gears or short chain method 🙂

you can leave the inlet in place, but the exhaust would be in the way of the short chain 🙁

I suppose you could cut the end off and secure the shaft somehow dunno..

OAKMERE

Just thought I would throw some ideas in the mix about leaving the shafts in place if they cant be removed with the engine in place.

They are not sapping power if they are not being turned and the I assume the oil feeds will be fine with everything left in place?

Would be very nice to have a spare engine to play with 🙁

Cheers Oakmere

slimvince

The REALLY radical way of getting the benefits of removed balance-shafts could be to get rid of the chain entirely, leave the balance shafts in place (no need for taking engine out of car) and then replace the water pump with an electric one. But this, of course, brings its own set of pros and cons.

rabidh

I always thought it would be good if you could extend the water pump drive to come out of the front of the engine and run on the alternator belt. You could then just remove the chain while leaving the balance shafts in place.

vocky

that's a good idea too

what about removing the pump and fitting an electric version, frees up 15 bhp showo..

slindborg

but most electric water pumps dont tend to have the same lifespan as a mechanical one.... hence why 99% of cars have mechanical pumps 😉

vocky

totally agree with you on that one 🙂

the main advantage of a mechanical pump is the speed varies with the engine speed, most electric pumps just go flat out and the seals dry up and fail, then the pump seizes 🙁

if the pump was replaced every year (or 250 run hours) then it would be ok, but quite expensive :roll:

rabidh

presumably you don't have to run them flat out... you could have some motor speed control and set the speed relative to the block temperature...

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