My vx220 project

TFD

Been reading on ecotec forums and first simple idea was a 2.3.
2.4 block
2.2 crank (no fiddling with ex.triggers)
2.2 rods
2.2 88mm pistons.

Just alot of reading to do. Needs to be around 9:1 c/r. Will talk to you when it takes more serious form lol.

vocky

Building a 2.3 engine would be ideal, you get the extra torque and also retain the z22se internal trigger wheel 🙂

Just the custom 2.3 pistons required (y)

ps: you will still need some 2.2 Eagle steel rods

vocky

evocarlos said:
14 @ wot that's piston melting territory :confused:
im sure once mapped the lowdown torque loss will be improved but the upper rev range 🙂

I checked the fuel pressure and it was set to 3.5 Bar, so I adjusted it to 4 Bar, this fixed the low down loss of power, but I watched the AFR at 7800 and it was 14.6 :eek:

Time for mapping 😃

ps: it goes like stink 🙂

vocky

I might have to get bigger injectors .... :confused:

Standard Webcon ITB kit come with Pico IWP042 which are 283cc at 3 Bar.
The 042's were ran at 4 Bar, which gave 327cc, but that was not enough for my old 2.2 engine so they were swapped for the next size up.

So currently I have IWP043 injectors which are 329cc at 3 Bar, they were running at 3.5 Bar which gave 355cc, now running at 4 Bar which equates to 380cc.

Next size up are IWP162 which are 377cc at 3 Bar. This would create 407cc at 3.5 Bar or 435cc at 4 Bar. Which should be more than plenty o_O

I guess it really depends on the % of duty cycle the current injectors can ran at with this engine, below 80% would be fine, above that means new injectors.

exmantaa

Just lurking around this forum again since ages, but can't you map the green LSJ injectors on the Webcon? Should flow enough and these have the right twin-spray pattern. Or are you injecting into the Webcon manifold?

ps; I'm currently busy with gatherig parts for a 2.3 Harrop engine. Very low mileage Gen3 88mm block casing; new Z22YH crank (currently away for Nitriding), some rods and now looking into decent 88mm pistons. Most likely going for custom Mahle forgings; expensive, but they should last long... :-)

vocky

The webcon kit blanks off the standard z22se injector holes and use injectors mounted in the throttle bodies, I guess because they were originally designed to replace carbs and thus needed injector mounts.

I have ordered some IWP162 (377cc) injectors because they work out cheaper than what another rolling road session would cost. If the current injectors are too small I would have to rebook and I think the injectors probably are.

The 2.5 engine has 13% more cubic capacity than the 2.2, coupled with the longer duration 286 cams I would have a very rough guess that at least 10% more fuel is required, so 355cc + 10% = 390cc (which is a minimum). Some proof of that is it's still running very lean with 380cc per cylinder.

Man maths works wonders :ROFLMAO:

vocky

exmantaa said:

I'm currently busy with gatherig parts for a 2.3 Harrop engine. Very low mileage Gen3 88mm block casing; new Z22YH crank (currently away for Nitriding), some rods and now looking into decent 88mm pistons. Most likely going for custom Mahle forgings; expensive, but they should last long... 🙂

that sounds like fun, JE Pistons might be another option, but custom pistons are never cheap 🙁

You should create a build thread on here (y)

exmantaa

Maybe will do a topic, but I already need to update my Yellow Project in the VX forum. :-/

I've seen and heard quite some problems with less quality pistons (heavy oil use, shrinking pistons etc.), so I'm trying to avoid all that. Like to have them in 4032 quality (like the Mahle Z20LEH's), but these are hard to get for 88.0mm. A few German tuners (f.i. Hitec) recommend to use only Mahle pistons, as most others did cause issues in due time.
(heard funny stories of running aftermarket forged pistons in an engine for 1000km's or so; then strip it and bore a different block slightly smaller to match the shrunken pistons. That then became the good engine..)

I'm building it together with Ultimate and we have a recommended German specialist that makes quality pistons from Mahle forgings, so maybe we can get them a bit cheaper as a small batch.
But the extra money for these we gain in reliability; another decent 88mm Gen3 block is hard to get here in Europe...

vocky

The other option is to use some production 88mm pistons and custom steel rods to join them to the yh crank (y)

You could also reduce the big end diameter of the crank if you can find some suitable rods 'off the shelf'.

That is what AtomX did to create his 1.9 engine.....

vocky

It will be interesting to find out what sort of power this engine will achieve and I have chosen Northampton Motorsport to do the mapping this time because their rolling road appears to be very accurate and they do not give out 'inflated bhp' figures just to please the owners, as we all found out back in 2010 at the z22se rolling road day.
Back then my old 1.9 cdti shed gave the correct 181 bhp and Matt's VXR 250bhp, so we knew it was pretty spot on. However a Courtenay mapped stage 3 SC only gave 275bhp on the day, which was quite a shock when it was supposed to have 300bhp :wideyed:

My vx220:
Engine number 1 was mapped by TMS
Engine number 2 was mapped by NMS and gave 189 bhp
Engine number 3 was mapped by NMS and gave 218.8 bhp
Engine number 4 was mapped by Webcon and it certainly seemed to have more power than number 3. Whether it was actually 241bhp we will never know.
Engine number 5 - only time will tell o_O

I do hope number 5 doesn't leave me sulking, as I really have no idea how to create engine number 6 :ROFLMAO:

Well I do, but it involves more cylinders :muted:

exmantaa

vocky said:
The other option is to use some production 88mm pistons and custom steel rods to join them to the yh crank (y)

You could also reduce the big end diameter of the crank if you can find some suitable rods 'off the shelf'.

That is what AtomX did to create his 1.9 engine.....

88mm bore seems to be a bit of an odd size and not many decent "semi forged" OEM pistons around. (off course thought of this route, but then I will most likely also need custom rods that are not cheap. And for rod angle I want to keep the low compression height/long rod of the Z22SE design.)

I'm not doing any grinding work on my crank! I found a brand new YH one in AU, so without the often seen worn bearing surfaces on ecotec cranks. That's now nitrided, polished and balanced. (y)

(Why would Mr Atom offset-grind a 2.0 crank to get an oversquare 1.9 engine? Simply use the 80mm crank of an Alfa JTS engine. = GM Ecotec)
ps; you know what happened with his widebody race VX project??

Roling road figures are always debatable, so simply stay with the same one for comparison. Not to mention the OBD power calculations...
I've been a few times here on MAHA rollers that I know gives reliable numbers. (also on stock engined cars.) 1st time with my "normal" Stage 2 SC Z22SE + CS map; 249.8HP and 11.8AFR flat.
Last year took the 2.0 +80mm Harrop & LSJ ecu there; Lots of traction issues, but measured a decent 330HP and a bit strangled up top from the 2,5 exhaust + kat. Next year will be 3" time and maybe with the new 2.3 engine. 🙂

vocky

I must admit that I would not have reground my new crank either, something about having a shiny new part :love:

ps; you know what happened with his widebody race VX project??

the last time I spoke to him was in 2014 and he had a weird 1996 japanese car, but as far as I know his vx thingy is still sat in his workshop waiting for some mojo to return

A rolling road should be treated as a guide, it's what it drives like which matters the most. If mine cracks the 250 mark I will be happy, if not I just won't care :depressed:

vocky

The new IWP162 injectors arrived today, so I fitted them and lowered the fuel pressure down to 3.4 Bar from 4 Bar. This makes them roughly 400cc injectors.
I also fitted some new fuel hose between the injectors.

vocky

sometimes the strangest things happen :confused:

The alternator belt decided to shred one rib, nothing really unusual in that, except the shredded section got caught by the trigger wheel and thus it smashed the top off the crank sensor :mad:

So I decided to make the crank sensor a little more robust by creating a support on my mill 😃

vocky

So the new injectors actually flow less than the old ones !
310cc flow when they should be 377cc

vocky

255 at 7100 and still climbing 🙂

patricks

vocky said:
255 at 7100 and still climbing 🙂

nice vocky. Hey care to post the power and torque graphs 🙂

vocky

It's still on the rollers getting mapped 🙂

Wonder what 7900 will give !

Dave_Gilbert

thats some good going there vocky, keep us posted n we need printouts hahaha

vocky

well good and bad news :confused:

Good news is it's mapped 😃

Bad news is I need to make a new crank sensor bracket and take it back to confirm the max BHP, this is due to engine vibration interferring with the crank sensor signal :banghead:

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