My Supercharger Build
- Thread starter rik1083
- Start date
rik1083
Senior Member
yeah precat is long gone.
I'm a bit confused regarding the temperature sensor. Things like the AEM FIC make no mention of temperature and relies on it's own MAP sensor. Surely if the IAT2 is high, then the MAP reading will also be high due to the temperature, and it can base the fuel off of that? I'm sure if they needed to, they could relocate IAT1 sensor to a position in the manifold (even if it meant drilling a new hole).. but they didn't?
I'm a bit confused regarding the temperature sensor. Things like the AEM FIC make no mention of temperature and relies on it's own MAP sensor. Surely if the IAT2 is high, then the MAP reading will also be high due to the temperature, and it can base the fuel off of that? I'm sure if they needed to, they could relocate IAT1 sensor to a position in the manifold (even if it meant drilling a new hole).. but they didn't?
If you read that GM manual for the 2,2 SC conversion kit, you see that there the 2 wires from the original IAT sensor are re-routed to the new TMAF sensor in the inlet manifold. Not sure which sensor they used there, but the original LSJ's TMAF sensor is a 5pin sensor. 3 for the MAF and 2 for the IAT signal.
(Same like my C20LET engine: Compared to the NA XE version, here the 2 wires from the air mass meter's temp sensor (=before turbo) are also not connected, but routed to a new temp. sensor situated in the inlet manifold...)
And they should have (at least partially) cracked the ecu, otherwise they would still use the piggyback solution for their SC conversions..
(Same like my C20LET engine: Compared to the NA XE version, here the 2 wires from the air mass meter's temp sensor (=before turbo) are also not connected, but routed to a new temp. sensor situated in the inlet manifold...)
And they should have (at least partially) cracked the ecu, otherwise they would still use the piggyback solution for their SC conversions..
Yep find this no-IAT thing simply crazy....
rik be warned, yes you are running so rich at high rpm, but the worst part of it is the VERY lean side before 2000rpm.
If you got in traffic jams and raise your engine boot temp a bit too much, with this AFR, it could simply lead to very bad knock/detonation
As a side note, a too restrictive exhaust fake the lambda readings, making them too rich : the unburnt fuel accumulates before the cat and the lambda reads this acculmulation which is more than the real time unburnt fuel getting out the engine
rik be warned, yes you are running so rich at high rpm, but the worst part of it is the VERY lean side before 2000rpm.
If you got in traffic jams and raise your engine boot temp a bit too much, with this AFR, it could simply lead to very bad knock/detonation
As a side note, a too restrictive exhaust fake the lambda readings, making them too rich : the unburnt fuel accumulates before the cat and the lambda reads this acculmulation which is more than the real time unburnt fuel getting out the engine
A11VXL
Trader
Your quite right Alanoo the lower end does look lean something we will look at when we see the car. On the standard car the target AFR below 3000 rpm is set very lean!!! Though this is obviously when the car is normally aspirated and it will only see atmospheric pressure or less. When the car comes on boost the target AFR is .8 and the car should be hitting this almost instantly.
In the situation you mention “if you are stuck in traffic and the under bonnet temps are raised is could lead to detonation” etc, you are correct of coarse, however in this situation the temp sensor on the inlet air pipe will read the increased air temperature and apply a correction factor within the map needed for this situation.
Which regard to cracking the ECU as I’ve said before we have not yet managed to find someone willing to part with the full Delphi 2.2 damos file (or his job should he be caught!!) so there are certain things that we cannot yet do. We did managed to find someone who gave us enough to get us going to enable us to rescale for the larger injectors, a clearer picture of the multiple timing maps and a map sensor that would now let the Delphi see boost pressure.
With regard to AT2, granted as an original manufacturer no air temp 2 is not the best option, although there are many forced induction cars of old that map neither airtemp 1or 2.
With the conversions we are doing in house here and in Germany, of the nearly 100 converted supercharged cars (with either the piggy back or the new OEM configuration) non have ever had temp sensor 2, this is because we had both control of the specification of the engine compression and the charge cooling set up etc. The cars have been mapped very safe on AFR and spark (timing) as a consequence we also run with little to zero active knock retard , leaving the full OEM knock retard correction map available for safety.
I hope this helps
Richard looks like a great job, look forward to seeing it on the 15th and finishing the calibration for you cheers..
Cheers Jon
In the situation you mention “if you are stuck in traffic and the under bonnet temps are raised is could lead to detonation” etc, you are correct of coarse, however in this situation the temp sensor on the inlet air pipe will read the increased air temperature and apply a correction factor within the map needed for this situation.
Which regard to cracking the ECU as I’ve said before we have not yet managed to find someone willing to part with the full Delphi 2.2 damos file (or his job should he be caught!!) so there are certain things that we cannot yet do. We did managed to find someone who gave us enough to get us going to enable us to rescale for the larger injectors, a clearer picture of the multiple timing maps and a map sensor that would now let the Delphi see boost pressure.
With regard to AT2, granted as an original manufacturer no air temp 2 is not the best option, although there are many forced induction cars of old that map neither airtemp 1or 2.
With the conversions we are doing in house here and in Germany, of the nearly 100 converted supercharged cars (with either the piggy back or the new OEM configuration) non have ever had temp sensor 2, this is because we had both control of the specification of the engine compression and the charge cooling set up etc. The cars have been mapped very safe on AFR and spark (timing) as a consequence we also run with little to zero active knock retard , leaving the full OEM knock retard correction map available for safety.
I hope this helps
Richard looks like a great job, look forward to seeing it on the 15th and finishing the calibration for you cheers..
Cheers Jon
Thanks for the explanation,
I must say I haven't monitored realtime AFR on the stock standard ECU as I fitted my wideband only with my standalone ECU.
I was sure these SC conversions had to be mapped on a safe side with these options too, and I'm happy to know it is the case (which was obvious as I didn't hear about any failure yet). Means there are still some hp to gain but well, as you are already at a stressful power level for the stock internals, it is a perfectly smart move.
I must say I haven't monitored realtime AFR on the stock standard ECU as I fitted my wideband only with my standalone ECU.
I was sure these SC conversions had to be mapped on a safe side with these options too, and I'm happy to know it is the case (which was obvious as I didn't hear about any failure yet). Means there are still some hp to gain but well, as you are already at a stressful power level for the stock internals, it is a perfectly smart move.
A11VXL said:
Still wondering, if the 2,2 ECU corrects the fuel map for (too) high air temperatures (as it should!), why not stick this IAT sensor in the manifold after the intercooler cores???
It makes no sense to let it stay in the original position (before the SC), as a not properly functioning intercooler system will hava a far greater effect on air charge temperature than a few more degrees outside...
Yello
Member
Need help!!
My ECU have finaly arrived, were hoping to get it up and running today, but!! The map sensor I got did not fit in the mounting hole in my inlet so I have a little problem here, how did you solve this on your car??? The map sensor fits in the SC but not in the inlet, the hole is to big.
My ECU have finaly arrived, were hoping to get it up and running today, but!! The map sensor I got did not fit in the mounting hole in my inlet so I have a little problem here, how did you solve this on your car??? The map sensor fits in the SC but not in the inlet, the hole is to big.
rik1083
Senior Member
i think if you look at it closely, the rubber at the base of the map sensor is about equal to the size of the hole, so as long as it's seated properly and pressed down from above, the rubber acts like a gasket and keeps it sealed. Could use some instant gasket around the rubber too if you think it could leak? I think mine's ok
Yello
Member
The car is up and running now 
but there is a little air leak somewhere, the idle varies from 800-2400rpm, so I will start with the MAP sensor tomorrow, find some o-rings and get it sorted out. Took it for a litle test drive though the whiiiiine is just awesome, think I will fall asleep with a big smile on my face tonight
but there is a little air leak somewhere, the idle varies from 800-2400rpm, so I will start with the MAP sensor tomorrow, find some o-rings and get it sorted out. Took it for a litle test drive though the whiiiiine is just awesome, think I will fall asleep with a big smile on my face tonight 
sdbutler10
Senior Member
nice one yello i bet you will be asleep with a smile on your face.
Yello
Member
rik1083 said:
Hi
The takeoff on the LSJ TB is not blocked but connected to the fuel filter thingy, don`t think that should be a problem, the green gasket is on, have sprayed the components with carb. cleaner to see if It sucks air but can`t find anything, starting to get afraid I have got the cam timing wrong... dunno..
Only thing I haven`t connected yet is the signal cable from the alternator, I have changed to a LSJ alternator, but don`t think thats a problem
