Webcon throttle bodies

vocky

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

alanoo said:
How is the pedal feel/feedback ?

the only difference I have noticed so far is it's slighty harder to press, but it does feel positive rather than remote like etb dunno..

but I haven't been for a test drive yet, maybe later in the week if I get the time :roll:

rik1083

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

is the webcon remap included in the price?

vocky

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

rik1083 said:
is the webcon remap included in the price?

short answer is no, but I knew it might be an issue before I purchased the kit.

I have not asked tms to provide a suitable map, I feel that my engine is too far 'out of spec' to expect them to sort it dunno..

Webcon do offer a stage 3 map for the webcon itb's which would suit a mildly tuned z22se 🙂

I asked webcons advice and they suggested Northampton Motorsport as they have lots of experience with mapping the webcon alpha system.

n17ves

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

vocky said:

rik1083 said:
is the webcon remap included in the price?

short answer is no, but I knew it might be an issue before I purchased the kit.

I have not asked tms to provide a suitable map, I feel that my engine's power is too far 'out of spec' to expect them to sort it dunno..

Webcon do offer a stage 3 map for the webcon itb's which would suit a mildly tuned z22se 🙂

I asked webcons advice and they suggested Northampton Motorsport as they have lots of experience with mapping the webcon alpha system.

I would of thought the spec of of your car would be similair as the original TB car? The original TB car (rubbers old car - orignally AMD tuned) had piper cams, headwork / ported & polished, lightweight flywheel, miltek, sport cat, itg.....etc. In the development stages TMS also fitted the the 4-1 manifold and swapped the cams to schrick before stripping most of the parts off and selling the car.

I'm really interested in how you get on with the TB's. They were a huge disappointment when TMS launched them at Snetterton couple years ago and were barely quicker than my NA (standard at the time) around Snetterton, but I think if they are setup properly, they could generate some good power showo..

vocky

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

the stage 3 car was only 185 bhp - remember the days when 185bhp was good going :lol:

so that was 30 bhp behind mine, which is quite a difference.

I'm beginning to see where the extra power comes from, many have fitted the 2.4 inlet manifold, sc tb, 4-1 exhaust manifold, cams, exhausts, removed the balancer shafts all thats left is the head dunno..

mine has +1mm swirled/ wasted stem valves and I ported it to what I believe is a stage 3, having seen several ported heads they all fall into what I believe to be a stage 1

so that appears to be where the extra power is coming from, well maybe also a higher compression ratio because of the valves according to Alanoo and he knows his stuff 8)

n17ves

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

vocky said:
the stage 3 car was only 185 bhp - remember the days when 185bhp was good going :lol:

so that was 30 bhp behind mine, which is quite a difference.

I'm beginning to see where the extra power comes from, many have fitted the 2.4 inlet manifold, sc tb, 4-1 exhaust manifold, cams, exhausts, removed the balancer shafts all thats left is the head dunno..

mine has +1mm swirled/ wasted stem valves and I ported it to what I believe is a stage 3, having seen several ported heads they all fall into what I believe to be a stage 1

so that appears to be where the extra power is coming from, well maybe also a higher compression ratio because of the valves according to Alanoo and he knows his stuff 8)

Can see your logic, but Eds car only made 1.7 bhp more than mine on the same rolling road day with a patriot stage 2 ported and polished head with +1mm waisted valves and Riks made the same power but with a 4-1 manifold instead of the headwork notsure.gif

...must be a conspiracy spy.gif

Looking forward to how you get on with the TB though. Have you thought about de-stoking the block?

alanoo

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

Why do you want to destroke it ?

n17ves

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

I'm no expert, but I would of thought power for one - the long stroke of the is not suited to high rpm, its designed for low down torque where as throttle bodies allow maximum airflow at high rpm. The other reason is reliability. With such a long stroke, I'm not sure +7000rpm is very wise (specially without a blie printed engine). It would also be nice to have a engine that actually rev'd properly.

slindborg

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

to rev the little bitch no doubt 😃

the 2.2 crank is massive stroke so the 2.0 crank makes it a rev happy monster

alanoo

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

Obviously it is an issue only at more than 8000 rpm

And you can definitely run upto 8500 rpm with a well balanced bottom end

n17ves

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

alanoo said:
Obviously it is an issue only at more than 8000 rpm

And you can definitely run upto 8500 rpm with a well balanced bottom end

But would high rpm be a pointless with a longstroke engine which will peak lowdown? It just seemed a logical step to me for performance and reliability to destroke the engine what..

It would also be nice to transform the character of the 2.2 from the cruiser it is.

alanoo

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

Long stroke will peak "lower", but it won't suck in high revs

Don't forget too that if you destroke, you'll have to go much higher in RPM to reach the same power, and you'll have to spend A LOT in the valvetrain

slindborg

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

shorter stroke can mean good torque midrange as the piston speed will be higher than the longer stroke, meaning you get a better cylinder fill, ergo more torque.

vocky

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

well I took it for the first test drive today :shock:

the cable throttle control doesn't stand out, a very similar feel to before dunno..

does sound rather nice 8)

roll on the mapping :roll:

anyway I still want a 2.4 bottom end, sod going lower cc's :lol:

Europa_Blue_SE1

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

WOW Neil!!! drool.gif
Lovely job mate how did she feel on her first test drive?
Really looking forward to hearing what you get from her after the remap.
"RESPECT" to all the hard work you've put in to the engine mate look forward to seeing her in TV soon!!! showo.. 8)

exmantaa

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

alanoo said:
Straight from the GM build book :
L61 springs to 7000 rpm
LSJ springs are recommended upto 7500rpm and 350 bhp

I read that also in the old build book, but according GM's own information:
Valve springs are the same across all variants (..of the Ecotec platform: LSJ, '07-L61, LNF and LE5 engines. And should be upgraded for high rpm operation or increased lift...)
They say that the '07 2,2's cam is changed (something for our Z22SE??), but maybe they also changed the 2,2 L61's springs in 2007??

See: http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Racer-Te ... HEET-2.pdf

alanoo

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

Yes just reading the new build book it looks like only the valves themselves are different, not the springs...

There were a few stupid mistakes in the old one... guess this was one of these.

The 07 2.2 cam has changed because the exhaust ports changed a bit (for better ones). As far as I know, only the exhaust cam has changed

exmantaa

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

Would like to raise the standard "float limit" a bit to _7500rpm with slightly stiffer springs, so it will be save to rev the VX a bit higher. But don't like putting unneeded strain on the valve train and the US Double springs seems somewhat excessive.
Any recommendations for an "economic" solution in Europe?

Sorry, I'm drifting from the subject here.. Keep on the good work Vocky. cheers..

dwarf

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

This is a nice video i found of throttle bodies in action.I love the way you see the air and fuel entering the cylinders.

God I miss the noise :cry:

Not my car*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4MdiGcVdfk

baldie87

Re: TMS - Webcon throttle bodies

nice

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