Removing Balance Shafts

rabidh

There was a discussion on here or vx220.org.uk involving Muncher. He was trying to do this with the engine still in the car and gave up in the end AFAIK 🙁 It might be worth finding it and seeing exactly what the problem was...

n17ves

I think the problem Muncher had was he couldn't drop the engine enough (no engine hoist?) to clear the chassis / subframe to pull out the balance shafts out.

I'd like to give this a go first before lifting the engine out as it should be just a case of unbolting the exhaust mani, and engine mounts.

I will take pictures as I go.

alanoo

Hum yes, it is definitely impossible on the vx220 with the engine in car.

vocky

n17ves said:
My only concerns are hammering the rear bearings 7.5mm further into the block - really don't want to get this wrong! How much is the margin of error for this?

Nick

0.5mm either way :shock:

it's quite hard to move the bearings, so easy to move them exactly 7.5mm cheers..

Muncher83

I don't like to think anything is impossible, but I think removing the balancer shafts AND fitting either collets or hammering in the bearings is impossible with the engine in situ.

The problems as I see it are:

Neither shaft will slide out with the subframe in situ, the engine cannot be raised or lowered enough to do this.
The intake balancer shaft cannot be removed even if the subframe is removed as it will interfere with the aluminium chassis member, there's no chance of going up or down to get around this.
If you decide to cut the balancer shafts in situ to get them out, this creates further problems. First each shaft will need to be cut at least twice, possibly 3 times to get them out. The shafts are induction hardened steel and will need something pretty impressive to get through them. If you decide to cut them you then have the problem of swarf and other dust getting into the shaft hole and inside the engine which is not good.
Assuming you have both shafts out you then need to blank off the rear oil ways. Using vocky's method you would need to assemble many small pieces of extension bar gradually to get to the bearings. Once that's done I can't see how you can apply any great force to knock them in as you just can't swing a hammer in that area, even with the clam off and subframe off. Vocky says they need to be knocked back 7.5mm with almost no margin for error. I just don't see how you can do this safely using this method.
The other alternative is to use a collet, but how you can locate it accurately using a similar method to the above, I'm really not sure of.

I've spent a fair amount of time scratching my head over this and concluded that the only way I'd be happy to do it is with the engine removed entirely. If someone can do it without doing that, I'd be very, very impressed![/list]

Muncher83

To give you an idea where the shafts are...

The shafts are pretty much half way up the subframe and look better in that photo due to the angle. The engine would need to ride about 9 inches I think to give clearance, maybe more, which will require an engine crane.

Here you can see the amount of clearance you have on the right hand side, about 3 inches? You need a 15 inch bar to get to the bearings....

n17ves

Cheers Muncher.

I've got an engine hoist, so I'm hoping I can drop the engine enough to clear the chassis without having to remove driveshafts and the all the other bits and bobs - it seems to show this method in the technical manual.

http://www.speedsterclub.nl/bibliotheek ... e%20(Z22SE.pdf

I'm removing the rear clam / cams (to be sent off to piper) this saturday so should have a better idea then. If I do end up having to remove the whole engine, at least I can use that excuse to fit a lightened flywheel at the same time 😃

vocky

I would fit the flywheel :shock:

to go to that much hassle and not fit one is a crime, in my book :lol:

you would regret not doing it :roll:

Muncher83

I'm pretty sure you can't drop it far enough to be honest...

The link you posted is the wrong one, that is just removing the balance shaft tensioner which is pretty easy.

TIS specifically refers to balance shaft removal as an engine removed job here:

http://www.speedsterclub.nl/bibliotheek ... %20Removed%20(Z22SE).pdf

Balancer Shafts, Remove and Install (Engine Removed) (Z 22 SE)

alanoo

I am 110% certain it is impossible by dropping the engine still in car, but lifting it maybe notsure.gif

Muncher83

alanoo said:
I am 110% certain it is impossible by dropping the engine still in car, but lifting it maybe notsure.gif

I'm inclined to agree with that, when I lifted it I found I couldn't get it even close to high enough without removing ALL of the engine mounts and drive shafts, so you pretty much have to disconnect everything.

nickb777

This was the reply I got

Hi Nick,

I have some pictures somewhere, I'll try to dig them up. We don't
advertise the kit because it is a special order item. Each kit
consists of two idlers shafts that replace the oem balance shafts.
These weight a few ounces and are simply there to hold the gears so
that the oem chain assembly can still be used to power the water pump.
The idler shafts are machined down from oem balance shafts to ensure
proper tolerances for the bearing surfaces, this also helps keep
manufacturing costs lower. The kit also includes two bushings that are
press fit (also know as smacked with a hammer) into the block to seal
the oiling passages left from the balance shafts.

Because the bushings are pressed into the block this modification can
not be undone in the future. The engine will vibrate more because the
sole purpose of the balance shafts is to cancel out vibrations found
in a large displacement inline 4 engine. Response wise the engine will
rev up much faster and feels less restricted.

Nothing else is required other then the kit. It is a good idea to
replace your timing cover gasket since you will have to take the
timing cover off to install the kit. Personally depending on the year
of the engine I would also replace the oil squirter for the timing
chain while I was in there. The older oil squirter had a check valve
that was prone the seizing and would under oil the timing chain,
resulting in snapped timing chains. The new squirter is not a cheap
part for what it is (roughly $50 I think) but it's simple to install
and buys a little piece of mind.

Cheers,
Clayton
Level Zero Motorsports

n17ves

Right....lifted the engine out last saturday (decided to fit a lightened flywheel at the same time 😃 ).
Removing the balance shafts is actually very simple. I then used the 30mm socket method to hammer the bearings 7.5mm further into the block (needs a good hit!!). However the problem I've found once I hammered the first bearing in, I then procceded to hammer the second bearing in. It was only when I put the tools away (and engine back in!!) that I realised the extension bar moved maybe a couple of mm further into the socket whilst hammering the first bearing in. I'm guessing the first bearing might be now couple of mm short?!

Is there anyway to check if I've hammered the first bearing in suffieciently maybe measure the distance compared to the second bearing?

vocky

the only way to tell would be to measure them dunno..

you have a couple of mm to play with, 6.5mm would just block the oil way, 7- 8mm will block it, 8.5mm would just block the oil way :?

alanoo

vocky said:
the only way to tell would be to measure them dunno..

Or second way, fully strip the engine and the crank bedplate and then you have a perfect visibility on the inner bearings and the oil channels to block

Easy no ? 😃

nickb777

Well my ZLM balance shaft removal kit has come today, same as in the picture 😃 however any one ever put them in? I'm not certain what to do. Vocky , they look good

Clayton the guy at ZLM was really helpful his instruction was

There are no instructions but it is very straight forward. The bushings are pressed into the block. I normally use a large aluminum drift I have floating around the shop but you could use a reversed screwdriver in a pinch. oil the bushing, line it up with the bearing and tap it into place with a hammer. The bushings are extra long so as long as they are mostly in you are fine.

The idler shafts go in just like the OEM shafts. Because they are balanced there is no need to worry about timing them correctly.

Do I take it you take the old gears off the balance shafts and put them on the new shafts?

alanoo

Remove the full old balance shaft
Press the ally bits into the inner bearings
Remove gear from the old shaft
Refit gear to the new idlers (FIT NEW BOLTS)
Get 15 free bhp

nickb777

It looks like it could be made here in the Uk with no hassle ,I wonder if Clayton would let us produce it here under some sort of agreement, IE payment to him per kit made?

Wonder if people would be interested?

daaaaavek

I wonder how Steve's balance shaft/short chain kit is coming along .. ?

n17ves

Right...lack of time, doing other bit n bobs and managing to shear one of the bolts on the gearbox bellhousing, I finally got the car running a few weeks ago with the balance shafts removed.

so far so good, but still havent driven the car due to the clutch slave cylinder which deciding to leak during bleeding! Typically I left it to the very last job to do!! Hopefully will get this sorted in the next week aswell as fitting the 2.4 mani when it arrives.

I fitted piper cams and a lightened flywheel at the same time so hard to tell which mods have done what so far, but the idle is really no different to standard. Removing the balance shafts certainly doesn't cause any nasty vibrations that a few people feared. The car revs better as you would expect with a lighter flywheel, but also a lot smoother which I'm guessing could be down down to removing the balance shafts?!

Hopefully when I get the clutch sorted I will be able to give a better update...... and start planning the next batch of mods.

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