Need some help people - possible symptoms of broken camshaft ?

markoneswift

Hi all - I haven't needed to seek help on here for ages, my 2.2 Zaf has been great. However ! I've had a light ticking noise from somewhere for a few weeks ( thought it was most likely noisey chain ) but now, I've got a confirmed ( by RAC ) misfire on number 4 cylinder. I've had the coli pack off and tested, it sparks through OK. I've had a comp test done, that was 150PSi. The plug on number four gets wet with fuel but no ignition. So, the RAC guy reckons maybe a cam or cam lobe could be broken ( or rounded off ) hence good compression but no ignition.

Could I firstly ask, does this sound plausible and second, how the hell do I get it fixed, given that it is an auto with hardly enough power to drag its ass up the drive let alone to a garage !!! Thanks.....

Din

I would say doubtfull really.. you could whip the rocker cover off to have a quick look though ?

I would say more likely to be a duff plug or a burnt out coil pack (i know you said its tested) but how ?

markoneswift

Din said:
I would say doubtfull really.. you could whip the rocker cover off to have a quick look though ?

I would say more likely to be a duff plug or a burnt out coil pack (i know you said its tested) but how ?

Hi mate, RAC guy checked the coil pack output, not sure how cos I was turning the engine over and he was the other side of the bonnet to me but he said it was sparking through ok. He put a new plug in, turned the engine over and it came out wet with fuel. I can't whip the cover off because I don't have any tools to do so ( I'm a computer geek, not a mechanic ) so I'll have to wait until my brother can get here to take a look. Cheers for the reply though mate, much apprciated

MikeS

does the car start up and idle ?

Din

No problem !

Its only 4x 10mm bolts that hold the coil pack on 🙂... then many more 10mm bolts for the rocker cover !!

Lets face it, if you have 150 psi on that cylinder its fairly unlikely the cam has broken !

So on that basis... its either spark or fuel ! your plug was wet with (presumably fuel), so my guess is coil... obviously its very hard to diagnose with out seeing it... and though i am a technician i dont have much experience with Vauxhalls ! bar the 2.2 Zafira i just bought with a knackered engine o_O

markoneswift

MikeS said:
does the car start up and idle ?

Yes mate, starts and idles but very rough - indicative of a bad misfire. Very, very noisey too from number four end of the engine, a heavy metallic rattling.

markoneswift

Din said:
No problem !

Its only 4x 10mm bolts that hold the coil pack on 🙂... then many more 10mm bolts for the rocker cover !!

Lets face it, if you have 150 psi on that cylinder its fairly unlikely the cam has broken !

So on that basis... its either spark or fuel ! your plug was wet with (presumably fuel), so my guess is coil... obviously its very hard to diagnose with out seeing it... and though i am a technician i dont have much experience with Vauxhalls ! bar the 2.2 Zafira i just bought with a knackered engine o_O

Thanks again for replying mate - I know it's 10mm bolts, but I don't even posses a ratchet and socket set at this point in time ( perhaps I should get one, might come in handy some day....)

I'm going to try and get the cover removed ASAP to see what's going on inside - I'll post back as soon as I have some more info

Din

Heavy metallic rattle from that side is abit of a worry.... let us know what you find 🙂

markoneswift

Din said:
Heavy metallic rattle from that side is abit of a worry.... let us know what you find 🙂

Will do - it's from the top end, I'm sure of that, but until I get the cover off I won't know for sure. I don't think I want to know, tbh.....

vocky

if it isn't the coil pack it could be the roller rockers / hydraulic lifters, I've seen z22se engines running on 14 valves before :confused:

markoneswift

vocky said:
if it isn't the coil pack it could be the roller rockers / hydraulic lifters, I've seen z22se engines running on 14 valves before :confused:

Thanks for this Vocky - I did wonder about what in my head I thought of as "tappets". Would this type of problem be easy to identify visually if I manage to get the rocker cover off ??

vocky

if you remove the cam cover it's pretty obvious if one has fallen off

markoneswift

vocky said:
if you remove the cam cover it's pretty obvious if one has fallen off

Right, well, I haven't had chance to look myself but my dad and brother took a look this afternoon and there is no obvious mechanical damage. Everything seems intact, apparently. So, I'm just wondering, is there anyone near me ( Wakefield, West Yorks ) who might just have a decent coil pack kicking about that they might part with ??? Don't really want to fork out for a new one to find that it is not the problem.....

MikeS

did you check timing ?

markoneswift

MikeS said:
did you check timing ?

Hi Mike - no, I haven't done anything myself with it, don't think RAC dude did and I haven't spoken to my dad yet to see if he did.

MikeS

only way check timing is to take chain & cam cover off

markoneswift

MikeS said:
only way check timing is to take chain & cam cover off

OK cheers Mike - my plan of action is to pick up a cheapo coil pack that I've found for sale reasonably local and try that first. If that doesn't help, I'm going to get the car trailered over to my brothers' unit where he's got a four post lift for further investigation. I should be able to get the timing etc checked out better over there cos he's got all the gear for that kind of thing ( he specialises in Range Rovers, but he's a dab hand with all sorts ).

He did say that if the chain tensioners are shot, that could cause the cams to 'trail' and retard the ignition - would you agree with that ?

markoneswift

Right well I've fitted a replacement coil pack and it make no difference what so ever. Metallic knocking / rattling remains ( hardly surprising ), misfire remains, so now we're on to getting the cover off properly and check for top end damage / timing problems.

The breakers yard, where I got the coil pack from, have a 41K miles complete engine for £450 which is looking very tempting the longer this goes on......

vocky

if the chain has jumped a tooth the timing will be out

markoneswift

Okay so here we go - trailered to my brothers' unit today for inmspection. Me and my dad got the cam cover off and found......two roller rockers adrift inside the head !! They were the rwo rockers that should have been opearting both of the number four cylinder exhaust valves. We also found the cam bearing cap 5 was ALMOST completely loose, cap 4 was coming loose and cap 3 was slightly loose !!!! The net result of all this is basically knackered cam bearing on 5, almost knackered bearing on 4 and a pretty well knackered exhaust cam. We undid all the bearing caps on the exhaust cam, got the rollers back in position, cleaned everything up as best we could and bolted it all back together. It now runs, no missing, sounds 'tappety' ( again, not surprising though ) and at least is drivable for the time being. I am now on the hunt for a low mile 2.2 motor as we have decide a swap out is better than lengthy top end work on a 100K mile bottom end with a crack in the water pump cover.......