What make the z22se so underpowered?

rod1-sri

As above really, ive been thinking and the 2.2 engine is really underpowered when compared to other cars of a similar cc. have they been restricted from the factory?

MikeS

Called Vauxhall & EU emissions legislation

x16xe that was designed by lotus pumped out around 125bhp stock [1.6 16v] - vauxhall then put an inlet manifold on it and loads of other electronic fueling sensors to reduce emissions and removed over 15 BHP

the z22se in essence is a decent engine - you can get over 200 bhp with stock internals - the problem is vauxhall have put a shed load of sensors and a shocking engine management system on it

Blue_2_2

MikeS said:
Called Vauxhall & EU emissions legislation

x16xe that was designed by lotus pumped out around 125bhp stock [1.6 16v] - vauxhall then put an inlet manifold on it and loads of other electronic fueling sensors to reduce emissions and removed over 15 BHP

the z22se in essence is a decent engine - you can get over 200 bhp with stock internals - the problem is vauxhall have put a shed load of sensors and a shocking engine management system on it

The C14XE & C16XE were deliberatly given long induction pathways (approx 7') to reduce peak horsepower but to maintain torque, this was done because Vx didnt want this little car embarassing the bigger/faster cars in their range.

The Z22SE is a derivate of the Lotus twin cam engine and has plenty of motorsport heritage, again it was limited for a number of reasons.

Putting 'sensors' on a car does not limit power, it infact allows the ecu to accuartly measure many paramiters and inject the correct amount of fuel
you could ditch all the sensors and go back to a dizzy cap and carbs..........imho this would be a stepbackwards!

SriSte

The design and poor fit of the standard exhaust manifold makes me recoil in horror.
Massively huge gears doesnt help things either.

rod1-sri

is it possible to fit another gearbox to the z22se such as a 6sp? i know that something is mounted differently on the 2.2 gearbox...

Blue_2_2

rod1-sri said:
is it possible to fit another gearbox to the z22se such as a 6sp? i know that something is mounted differently on the 2.2 gearbox...

Bit off topic!
Yes the M32 6 speed box fits, there is a thread on 'Transmission/brakes section'

rod1-sri

not really off topic as it was relative to the previous comment

MikeS

oki guyz .... take it easy :wink:

Daz

Blue_2.2 said:

rod1-sri said:
is it possible to fit another gearbox to the z22se such as a 6sp? i know that something is mounted differently on the 2.2 gearbox...

Bit off topic!
Yes the M32 6 speed box fits, there is a thread on 'Transmission/brakes section'

bit too much of the keyboard warrior going on on here of late me thinks....

mazza_2_2

Realistically this is Vauxhall trying not to approach the power regions of the GSI or SRi Turbo. It's the halfway mark between the 1.8 and Z20Let, so appeals to a certain market like us 😃 If we want more power then should we not be considering those z20LET's dunno..
Maybe if it wasnt for that torque dip it wouldnt feel underpowered as much and we might not be having this debate. haha.

Daz

Dont wanna be talking turbos with atom x or blue 2.2 around....they may throw there toys out there pram....... rofl.. rofl.. rofl.. rofl.. rofl.. rofl.. rofl.. rofl.. rofl.. rofl.. rofl..

mazza_2_2

:lol: yeah thanks for the warning. Take it there normally aspirated worshippers then?

Blue_2_2

mazza 2.2 said:
Realistically this is Vauxhall trying not to approach the power regions of the GSI or SRi Turbo. It's the halfway mark between the 1.8 and Z20Let, so appeals to a certain market like us 😃 If we want more power then should we not be considering those z20LET's dunno..
Maybe if it wasnt for that torque dip it wouldnt feel underpowered as much and we might not be having this debate. haha.

If i wanted a turbo engine i would choose the Z20NET, the Z20LET would be a step back down the evolutionary ladder!

mazza 2.2 said:
:lol: yeah thanks for the warning. Take it there normally aspirated worshippers then?

I can't speak for the good Doctor, but i love the rush, the sound and a feel of a turbo. if there was a turbo conversion kit (like the sc kit) available in this country it would defintly be interested in it.

mazza 2.2 said:
:lol: yeah thanks for the warning. Take it there normally aspirated worshippers then?

Im a long way from a NA worshipper, my stroke is far to long for that! :lol:

sdbutler10

Blue_2.2 said:

mazza 2.2 said:
Realistically this is Vauxhall trying not to approach the power regions of the GSI or SRi Turbo. It's the halfway mark between the 1.8 and Z20Let, so appeals to a certain market like us 😃 If we want more power then should we not be considering those z20LET's dunno..
Maybe if it wasnt for that torque dip it wouldnt feel underpowered as much and we might not be having this debate. haha.

If i wanted a turbo engine i would choose the Z20NET, the Z20LET would be a step back down the evolutionary ladder!

mazza 2.2 said:
:lol: yeah thanks for the warning. Take it there normally aspirated worshippers then?

I can't speak for the good Doctor, but i love the rush, the sound and a feel of a turbo. if there was a turbo conversion kit (like the sc kit) available in this country it would defintly be interested in it.

mazza 2.2 said:
:lol: yeah thanks for the warning. Take it there normally aspirated worshippers then?

Im a long way from a NA worshipper, my stroke is far to long for that! :lol:

there is a turbo kit tho :S and it can be brought and its cheaper than the s/c kit

mazza_2_2

I have to agree there's nowt like the sound of a turbo spooling up. but the lag can get annoying.

But back to the subject though. BMW'S new 320 engine is a peach, 2.0 170 BHP. No aggressive CAMS or anything just good build quality. Z22SE though 200cc larger gives 150 BHP. We know you get what you pay for, but this is some defecit on what is easily attainable.

Is it the injectors? Timing? Exhaust Manifold? notsure.gif

Blue_2_2

mazza 2.2 said:
I have to agree there's nowt like the sound of a turbo spooling up. but the lag can get annoying.

But back to the subject though. BMW'S new 320 engine is a peach, 2.0 170 BHP. No aggressive CAMS or anything just good build quality. Z22SE though 200cc larger gives 150 BHP. We know you get what you pay for, but this is some defecit on what is easily attainable.

Is it the injectors? Timing? Exhaust Manifold? notsure.gif

The SE is built to be a 145bhp engine, so the cams are mild, the compression ratio relativly low, exhaust manifold is very restrictive, pre-cat makes it worse
all these little bits and more add up to make a cracking engine with REAL potential, into a lazy lumbering pathetic excuse of an engine

On the plus side, remove the restrictions and the engine shows it true colours

mazza_2_2

Im pleased that this has potential, i've got Irmscher backbox, stainless steel powerflow centre section with less restrictive cat, im going to get shot of the standard manifold and the crappy cone filter and we'll see how that goes. 😃

Blue_2_2

mazza 2.2 said:
Im pleased that this has potential, i've got Irmscher backbox, stainless steel powerflow centre section with less restrictive cat, im going to get shot of the standard manifold and the crappy cone filter and we'll see how that goes. 😃

The engine has got massive potential, google 'GM Ecotec build book' to see what is possible

Cone filter.............they are work of the devil!
The standard airbox with standard vx panel air filter & 58mm throttle body (with dbilas air scoop) flows enough air for 200bhp

So invest your money in the exhaust, cams and a gas flowed head

There are some great build threads on the project page, Vocky 20 page build should keep you going for a few hours lol

ATOM_X

Don't drag me into this

Daz

Just a bit of light hearted banter.... :thumbup: