VX220 2.4L VVT ITB conversion

rabidh

Ahh. I'm sure I read that thread before, but for some reason I didn't remember that! Thanks 🙂
:o Wow. I thought that would defeat the point of sequential fuel injection quite a bit, but maybe it's not too bad. At least for starters I could get my engine running that way. I have 4 separate coils, but I could just join the 1+3, 2+4 inputs together I guess!

vocky: ever thought of putting a cam position sensor in? you could tap out and add a small trigger wheel to the end of a camshaft and use a hall effect sensor inside the rocker cover, bolted to the cylinder head - I'm pretty sure they won't mind all the oil being splashed around. The Webcon ECU must have provision for camshaft sensors? With bigger injectors (maybe use the cylinder head's injector holes and bung the TBs ones up - I don't know what's best) and proper sequential fuel injection you should be able to scrape a few more BHP 🙂

alanoo

Apparently, on a long stroke which are basically a HUGE vaccum sucker for the mixture, you won't gain that much going from a semi-sequential setup to a full sequential one

for the ion sense thing :

Have you got a way to read anything from an OE ion sense setup ?

From the info I gathered when looking at that, the coil pack of the 2.2 are not really ion sense... I mean they are, but only to determine the engine phase, nothing else, this part is supposed to be driven by a small logic directly epoxyed in the coil pack (not in the ignition module)
On the other way, the Saab / Z20NET setup, are single coil on plugs which I guess are the same you have on the 2.4, but the ion sense part is driven by the ignition module, which is a Mitsibushi part clearly name "ion module" on it. I had one of these with my Z20NEL engine and not using it for the moment... only problem is that I don't have the loom part between this ion ignition module and the coils on plug, I guess it comes with the full engine loom, so pretty useless

rabidh

Thanks alanoo, so the Z20NET COPs + ignition module is what I want (along with that bit of the loom)? And then the ignition module wires direct to the ECU? Does anyone have any pics of it? It looks like all the heads have the same spark plug holes and drillings so different ecotec coil packs should just bolt right in.

What cars can I get it off? Any >2001 turbocharged 2.0L Saab? Any Vauxhalls?

I found a pdf somewhere on the Z22SE ignition module - I tried to find it to post up, but no luck so far. It was interesting, but as you say it's only to determine engine phase.
The 2.4L coil packs have the drive electronics in them, so while they're great for a normal engine, they'll be useless for ion sense unless the ion sense is built into them - and I'm pretty sure it isn't now. I think Delphi patented that, and these have AC Delco written on the side.

I have a digital storage scope for testing of the ion sense, but the plan is to use a PIC microcontroller connected to the engine. Those will easily sample at 60,000 s/sec - I'll trigger a sample once for every tooth (or lack of tooth) on the 58 tooth trigger wheel, so I get 30 samples for each cylinder - a sample every 6 degrees - which should be enough for some simple tuning - especially if I curve-fit it, and the amount of data is small enough that the 40mhz microcontroller could handle it easily - even at 6000rpm.

alanoo

Late Saab 1.8t and 2.0t (biopower or not)

I wasn't sure the Z20NET vauxhall fitted in the Vectra-C and Signum was the same module, but looking at the diagram in the EPC it looks exactly the same so should be the same part. I remember I found a page on a mitsubishi website about this part a few days ago, but cannot find it anymore...

For the loom I cannot bring you an answer, I hadn't got it with my Z20NEL
The module can be seen here on my engine : http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/314 ... d377_b.jpg
near the exhast cam end (no it is not connected to it, there's a small alloy bracket fixing it here)
Same part as this : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Saab-9-3 ... ccessories

I could lend you mine long term, but not sure it will be very usefull without the loom part

vocky

remember to check which spark plugs you have, the 2.2 uses taper seal and the saab/lsj uses flat washers to seal the plugs.

this moves the plugs further away from the 2.2 coil pack and I had to modify the extensions to allow them to reach the plugs.

you could mount the cam position sensors on the auxillary drive positions, well the saab head could as it has one on each of the cams, not sure whether the 2.4 vvt has these ?

rabidh

vocky said:
remember to check which spark plugs you have, the 2.2 uses taper seal and the saab/lsj uses flat washers to seal the plugs.

this moves the plugs further away from the 2.2 coil pack and I had to modify the extensions to allow them to reach the plugs.

Ahh. good plan - It'll be a real pain if it stopped me using the pack I wanted.

vocky said:
you could mount the cam position sensors on the auxillary drive positions, well the saab head could as it has one on each of the cams, not sure whether the 2.4 vvt has these ?

I was suggesting for your engine 🙂 My head has already got the sensors built in...

btw, I'm just in the process of downloading a massive 14gb of GM Service Manuals. I'll have to see what they're like, but it looks like TIS - but for every GM product for the last 10 years. It could be brilliant for looking up stuff about Z22SE/Z20NET/etc internals...

vocky

I have no plans to modify my current set up.

future plans include a 2.4 vvt and a harrop, but I'm waiting to see how you get on :lol:

rabidh

Well, looking good so far. I've worked out where all the wires on the old ECU connector go, and had the manifolds and rocker cover off to look at the valvegear. It's all pretty similar to the Z22SE, although the roller rockers seem to be a very slightly different construction. The trigger wheels for the position sensor are easily visible, and should be quite easy to work with. There are 4 keys, 2 long (with 2 small gaps), and 2 short (with 2 long gaps) - I guess so the ECU can easily figure out if the valves are 180 degrees out or not.

As I've said, I'm going to try VVT, but if anyone is considering disabling it, it looks quite possible to me.

First off, I think the cam sprockets could be welded up - that's maybe the easiest option if you knew where you wanted them.
Apparently the sprockets have a locking mechanism that locks them at 0 degrees if there is no oil pressure - so if you blocked up the hole where the solenoid goes (which would be easy if you had access to a lathe + some rubber grommets), they'd probably just stay at the default positions,
Maybe more interestingly though, I put an old camshaft I had by the side of the new head, and it looked like it would almost go in - I didn't check the bearing diameters but I'd be pretty sure they were the same. You'd have to get someone to mill a few mm off of the end of the bearing (the LE5 one is wider to allow space for the 2 oilways to the sprocket), and the bolts holding the bearing cam on are a bit further over, but apart from that I'd think you could easily put Z22SE cams and sprockets in. Makes you wonder why the US guys stick the Z22SE head on really :S

It's interesting that the head doesn't have EGR... The manifold has a cut-out, as does the gasket, but the head just has 2 recesses - not proper holes. The exhaust ports are depressingly small - It's tempting to try and port them given how big the WeaponR is.

I'll post some pics up in a bit.

vocky

pics would be good 🙂

rabidh

Engine with my ITBs and the remnants of Vocky's manifold. They're just placed on, but you get the idea! 🙂 You can also see the built-in oil cooler, and the old flywheel (it came off a US auto car)

The VVT sprockets:

Very sexy VVT solenoid. I think this diverts the oil feed to either advance or retard the timing. You could easily mill up a bit of metal to just block off the ports instead of just using the solenoid.

In this pic, I placed an old camshaft by the side (I couldn't get it totally aligned) - and I also added a normal Z22SE bearing cap for comparison. I think if the LE5 bearing cap were milled down a bit then you could fit a normal Z22SE cam and sprocket in. Of course you may have some gaps where the old oilways were, but I'm sure any issues could be overcome.

vocky

weird set up :lol:

I can see why the guys in the states swap the head, it would be easier

rabidh

not sure really... The bores are different, so there will be this horrible lip on the head unless it is machined out - it can't be good for combustion (or the piston/rings).

I quite like the set up actually - but I guess i'm biased 🙂 It's very simple considering what it's able to do, and there's not much to go wrong.

rabidh

Well, quick update. I'm just drawing out the PCB for the ECU.

Having a bit of a nightmare trying to figure out what the wires for the fusebox + engine->car connector are though. It's off a chevy HHR and I got the GM service manual for all cars 2004-5 off the 'net - but the 2.4 only came in 2006. Also I got the GM parts manual for 2008, but that doesn't have wiring diagrams in it!

I don't suppose anyone knows where I could get the wiring diagrams from? If not I guess I'll just poke around with the 2004 diagrams and hope the engine->car connector is about the same 🙂

rabidh

Just a few pictures. Me and a friend started work on swapping the engine over today... The 2.4 is now in, just got to mess with a few things and put the bodywork back on tomorrow...

The PCB should be arriving early next week, so hopefully I'll get that soldered up quite quick and if I get the software sorted quickly I might be running with the 2.4 by the end of the month.

vocky

looking good 8)

Sjdickso

That does look good.

sdbutler10

thats looking good mate 😃

rabidh

Thanks!
Not as much done today as I had hoped for, but we got most of the wiring in and sorted the plumbing. I'm going to mount the ECU (and relays hopefully) inside the car as alanoo has done. I think I can get them in one corner and still get the cover back on too...

A few things interesting to people planning on doing this...

I fitted the oil cooler into the heater circuit. As far as I can tell, this will get water circulated around it even when the main valve isn't open. It might boost the apalling warmup time of the VX220 heater 🙂
The oil cooler gets in the the way of the large original water pipe a bit - but this can still be fitted and I just added a piece of pipe in place of the original cooler. It also gets in the way of the header tank's pipe, but you can just cut an inch off the end of it. You can just take the original VX220 heater hose and cut it in two to fit the cooler inline.

The fuel rail on the 2.4 is a non-return rail, and the injectors have different plugs. I didn't want to mess with the fuel system, so I just took the 2.2's return rail and plugged the 2.4 injectors in. The rail itself then sits a little high, so you have to make 2 spacers for it. The fuel pipes fit fine, but you have to make your own brackets to hold them. I know the fuel pressure between the 2 cars is different, so we'll have to see how this affects the suitability of the 2.4 injectors.

After that we figured we really don't need the TB injectors, so we just covered the inside with duck tape and filled the holes full of araldite. Worked a treat and gave us a lovely smooth surface on the inside of the TBs.

The wiring contains loads of stuff that isn't needed. The VX220 has a separate loom for the alternator and starter (which we just used from the Z22SE), so all that stuff is useless - as well as the stuff for the aircon and auto gearbox. I won't strip it out until I'm sure it's not needed but it would probably halve the size of the loom in some places. Otherwise the loom seems to fit ok. The fusebox/loom connector are on the wrong side of the car, so by the time you double them back most are about a foot too short - but hopefully I'll just cut my old loom up and join it in. The other nice bit of luck is that the wires for the ECU are long enough to be routed into the cockpit, so I can position the ECU in there nicely. I'm still a little worried that the WeaponR will cause some trouble with the wires running directly above it - I may have to make a heatshield.

By the way, if anyone wants to buy a Z22SE, pm me. I'll post up in for sale soon... It's done around 70k, but it has had a different piston fitted. Story will be in the for sale section, but it's done 1-2k miles since that and never missed a beat.

Pic from today:

Wiswion

really nice setup

rabidh

Just a few more pictures... It's going a bit slowly because I haven't had too much time on the car recently.

The throttle pedal arrangment... It's just a clamp made up out of a block of ally... I'm debating making a new pedal assembly, or getting one off a scrapped elise, as this isn't great... When I attach to the ITBs I'm pretty sure I'll find I can move the clamp up the pedal though - as it's far too close to my foot right now 🙂
I got 30m of 5mm bike brake cable off ebay - It's really nice stuff, and I got some wire hauser to go down it from Homebase. I'm using vocky's method of going over the sills, and there's a nice straight run through a hole that was already in the car behind the seat belt reel. I'm having to take the cable right round over the top of the engine and down by the gearbox so I can get a nice curve on it all.

And the new ECU. I designed the PCB to fit in the existing ECU housing and use the same connectors (but I still have to mill one or two bits out of the middle of the housing). I only got it from the PCB manufacturer today, so I haven't fitted all the components on yet. After that I'm going to be sitting in front of a PC getting the software sorted for quite some time I imagine :S

Otherwise, I've got all the vacuum stuff sorted, and all the wires cut where I need them, so I just have to wire up the LC-1 again and splice the new wiring loom into the VX220 connectors.

Interesting stuff:
The Hall effect sensors are nice 3 wire things that will run off 5v, but the output needs a 10k pull-up before they'll work. I had a bit of a 'moment' when turning the engine over and getting absolutely no output 🙂

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