Standalone ECUs Again

rik1083

Forget for a moment about the ETB problem. I've been reading about standalone ecus for the past few days, and in particular the DTA S60, Emerald and the MegaSquirt. What I would like to know is about the sensors on our engines and if they will work with these ecus without changing them. For example, what about our spark coil pack, I've seen people almost always change these when going standalone.. why is that? Another main question is the crank sensor.. can the standard one be re-used? do we need a cam sensor adding... what about one of those bolt-on trigger wheels?
I think I'm leaning more towards the DTA since the features list is longer and they are based in Salford which is pretty close to me (Don't know if they do mapping on that site though)

alanoo

I am almost sure only the megasquirt is capable of reading the 7+1 teeth pattern of the standard trigger wheel+sensor

vocky

my webcon alpha ecu uses;

external crank sensor/ trigger wheel, water temp sensor, air intake temp sensor, lambda sensor and of course the throttle position sensor (tps)

it uses the original coil pack with the amplifier removed

I was worried about not using the original sensors, but that soon fades and I wouldn't worry about not using them ever again.

Standalone is the way forward with the z22se, well until someone can write brand new maps for it.

Alessio

alanoo said:
I am almost sure only the megasquirt is capable of reading the 7+1 teeth pattern of the standard trigger wheel+sensor

Are you sure about that? I bought the Emerald ECU (but not fitted it yet): they say the Z22SE uses Bosch 60-2 teeth pattern dunno..

alanoo

100% Sure

The only L61/Z22se that uses a 60-2 pattern are the 2007+ ones, with coil on plugs and no coil pack, I am not even sure they exist in Europe, but I guess vocky would confirm that...

vocky

I took this picture two years ago just for this question :lol:

Alessio

Means that I have to fit a new trigger wheel + sensor? :shock:

alanoo

Alessio

alanoo said:
[...]

Where did you buy it?

alanoo

Homemade...

Alessio

alanoo said:
Homemade...

Nice job! :clap:

Has it the same diameter as the crankshaft pulley, or is it a bit smaller?

rik1083

original trigger wheel looks a bit horrible.. would the 7+1 teeth not be very accurate?
With a standalone, is the only thing needed is the trigger wheel? what about the cam position sensor?

alanoo

Smaller
Acutally the trigger wheel itself is not really "homemade" it is a crappy universal part
Had no holes so all the centering and PCD holes are homemade + the offset ally ring

vocky

the webcon crank sensor / trigger wheel

vocky

rik1083 said:
original trigger wheel looks a bit horrible.. would the 7+1 teeth not be very accurate?
With a standalone, is the only thing needed is the trigger wheel? what about the cam position sensor?

if you trigger 1+4 then 2+3 injectors and coils together then you don't need a cam sensor, remember to inject half the fuel required with this method, also you can use smaller injectors. This is how the webcon itb's work.

Alessio

vocky said:
if you trigger 1+4 then 2+3 injectors and coils together then you don't need a cam sensor [...]

Do you know the pinout of this connector on coil pack?

rik1083

vocky said:

rik1083 said:
original trigger wheel looks a bit horrible.. would the 7+1 teeth not be very accurate?
With a standalone, is the only thing needed is the trigger wheel? what about the cam position sensor?

if you trigger 1+4 then 2+3 injectors and coils together then you don't need a cam sensor, remember to inject half the fuel required with this method, also you can use smaller injectors. This is how the webcon itb's work.

does our cars do 1+4 and 2+3 together normally? why half the fuel and smaller injectors?

alanoo

Alessio said:

vocky said:
if you trigger 1+4 then 2+3 injectors and coils together then you don't need a cam sensor [...]

Do you know the pinout of this connector on coil pack?

Now hold the ICM just as I am holding it and you will see the exact same pin layout as above on the coil side. Guess what we're going to do almost the exact same thing as above. This is the ICM side pin series, pay very close attention to the pin arrangement as this is how you must set up your second Napa EC144 or Ac Delco PT787 6 Pin ICM connector plug. Notice there is only 4 pins on the ICM section as starting from left to right the first pin is blank as is Pin 5. Starting from left to right there is no Pin 1 on the ICM. Pin 2 is on the ICM and is the Cylinder 1 and 4 coil control (Solid White Wire on Msd Harness). Pin 3 is the ignition voltage (Solid Red on MSD Harness There are 2 of these wires which go to this single pin location). Pin 4 is Cylinder 2 and 3 coil control (Solid Green Wire on Msd harness). Pin 5 is not on the ICM and is not used. Pin 6 is on the ICM also but is also NOT used.

rik1083

rik1083 said:

vocky said:

rik1083 said:
original trigger wheel looks a bit horrible.. would the 7+1 teeth not be very accurate?
With a standalone, is the only thing needed is the trigger wheel? what about the cam position sensor?

if you trigger 1+4 then 2+3 injectors and coils together then you don't need a cam sensor, remember to inject half the fuel required with this method, also you can use smaller injectors. This is how the webcon itb's work.

does our cars do 1+4 and 2+3 together normally? why half the fuel and smaller injectors?

Hi. OK, I did some reading on our stuff about the CSI thing.. but doesn't explain how we can use standalone ecus like the Alpha or the Skybele.. I can understand the wasted spark system, it just fires both plugs because it doesn't know which one is on the combustion or exhaust cycle... but how does it inject properly? surely the injection must be done in the order of cylinder combustion (it can't do a "wasted injection" as well)? Otherwise we'd either waste half the fuel by injecting into the exhaust.. or igniting the fuel in one of the cylinders at completely the wrong time?

vocky

half of the fuel is injected at the closed valve, then the valve opens and sucks that and the other injected half into the cylinder