Hydraulic Lifter Replacement (Oil Starved) - Advice Please

[Shane _O]

Hi guys, first post but hope you can help me.

Have a 02 SRi Astra and last week noted some rattling type sound coming from it. Checked the oil and noticed it was low and not showing on the dipstick. I know, i'm an idiot. The oil light had not come on, not even intermittently and not remained on after start-up or anything like that.

I'm living in Perth, Australia and all this happened on a week where it was around 40 deg C so the oil still would have been quite warm even just sitting there.

I put 2.5 Litres of oil into the car in increments checking the dipstick and waiting as I went to ensure I didn't overfill it and with 2.5 litres put in it was registering at the Max on the dipstick so my thoughts were the initial dipping I did(4/5 times) where it wasn't showing on the dipstick may not have been as low as I thought.

Regardless of all this I took it to a mechanic who gave it a look over while it was running and advised these engines are extremely intolerant of low oil levels and the lifters were "sticking" probably from oil starvation in the top end(makes sense if the oil was low). I'm thinking since the tapping is permanent the lifter(s) is/are seized - Is this possible?

Sound seems to be coming from the Timing Chain side of the head so assuming it could be localised to here.

The car is currently driving fine and there's no bottom end knock, just a tapping on the top end(lifters). It currently is idling low 600-750 rpm, and is slightly hesitant to pick up from idle but pulls fine when driving at normal revs.

It's gonna get an oil change tomorrow and some lifter treatment additive as a first step.

I know I'm a complete idiot for letting it run low on oil but I am where I am now so it needs to be fixed. I'm quite good mechanically but have had Japanese cars all my life and am not familiar with the Z22SE so looking for advice from all you knowledgeable people

What I want to know is:

• Is the car OK to remain driving or is a sticky lifter or more than one causing potential other damage.
• How do I identify the possible "sticking" or seized lifters to be replaced as a first step without doing them all?
• How much of a job is replacing a lifter? Do they just slip in or require pressing?
• Does anyone have a service manual/tutorial for the replacement?
• Any special tools needed?
• Do i need to prime the new lifters or carry out anything prior to start up? i.e. turning the engine over without spark to pump oil in?
• Anything else I should check while i'm in there? - I see a lot about the Timing Chain tensioner being oil pressure related - Possible this could also be stuck/seized from the previous lack of oil? The "Diesel" sound does come on and go away on start-up so i'm thinking it's fine.

Z22SE's are literally impossible to find in Australia so anything resembling a rebuild or replacement is out of the question and the car is wrote off if this doesn't fix the problem technically.

Sorry for the long post and Thanks in Advance to anyone who replies.

 

[patricks]

Hi Shane straight up here is a resource to change the lifters

http://www.speedsterclub.nl/bibliot...301305-Hydraulic Tappets, Replace (Z22SE).pdf

1.Yes sticky lifters are ok to drive with and wont cause ur engine to self destruct - mine are bit noisy on start up too have been for over 180,000km
2. Its a tapping noise that is present on start up from top of engine that may go away after oil pressure builds.
3. Dont attempt unless u have experience or are prepared to do a lot of reading
4. Just the usual stuff - cam looking tool would be handy to check timing is Ok on reassembly
5. Depends some are primed with oil others not.

Same thing happened to me. Low oil level light on the dash does not seem to work on these cars and i ran mine low for goodness knows how many thousands of km - but it didnt make any difference my car has now 480,000Km on it.

Being warmer weather even if it was low on oil it may not have caused too much damage as oil flows quicker when warm. Dont source ur lifters from Holden - cheaper to get form o/s

 

[Shane _O]

Hi Shane straight up here is a resource to change the lifters

http://www.speedsterclub.nl/bibliotheek/technische documentatie/tis/Standard Information/Engine and Engine Aggregates/00301305-Hydraulic Tappets, Replace (Z22SE).pdf

1.Yes sticky lifters are ok to drive with and wont cause ur engine to self destruct - mine are bit noisy on start up too have been for over 180,000km
2. Its a tapping noise that is present on start up from top of engine that may go away after oil pressure builds.
3. Dont attempt unless u have experience or are prepared to do a lot of reading
4. Just the usual stuff - cam looking tool would be handy to check timing is Ok on reassembly
5. Depends some are primed with oil others not.

Same thing happened to me. Low oil level light on the dash does not seem to work on these cars and i ran mine low for goodness knows how many thousands of km - but it didnt make any difference my car has now 480,000Km on it.

Being warmer weather even if it was low on oil it may not have caused too much damage as oil flows quicker when warm. Dont source ur lifters from Holden - cheaper to get form o/s

I am quite experienced mechanically but wanted to do the research on here first. I want to do the lifters as it's not a nice sound and definitely would affect the resale value.
As for looking for which ones are noisy specifically, is there any way to pinpoint the exact ones which are damaged so I don't have to replace them all?

Thanks for the link. Just looking at it now it looks to be more than what I was expecting to be honest, i.e. removing the camshafts, so it would probably be beneficial to just do them all.

 

[patricks]

I am quite experienced mechanically but wanted to do the research on here first. I want to do the lifters as it's not a nice sound and definitely would affect the resale value.
As for looking for which ones are noisy specifically, is there any way to pinpoint the exact ones which are damaged so I don't have to replace them all?

Thanks for the link. Just looking at it now it looks to be more than what I was expecting to be honest, i.e. removing the camshafts, so it would probably be beneficial to just do them all.

If you replace one bad lifter then you have to replace all others on that cam too. So minimum of 8 new lifters id say. Resale value?? These cars are worth bugger all now and 16 new lifter from holden will set u back over a thousand dollars....source them from usa.......i have managed to make mine fairly quiet now by changing the oil to a combination of 3.5 litres full synthetic and one litre semi synthetic. I used to run fully synthetic,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Shane _O]

If you replace one bad lifter then you have to replace all others on that cam too. So minimum of 8 new lifters id say. Resale value?? These cars are worth bugger all now and 16 new lifter from holden will set u back over a thousand dollars....source them from usa.......i have managed to make mine fairly quiet now by changing the oil to a combination of 3.5 litres full synthetic and one litre semi synthetic. I used to run fully synthetic,,,,,,,,,,

Where are you based Patrick? Yeah, they're not worth a lot these days but they're probably unsellable if someone thinks it's going to break down five mins after they buy it.

Have you done a lifter replacement? Or just tackled it with the oil combo? I saw on a previous thread you guys were talking about these lifters.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-GM-ECOTE...ice-/111396481222?hash=item19efbf68c6&vxp=mtr

Are these compatible for a stock Z22SE? They are a decent price.

I'm originally Irish so I'm going to ring my local motor factors tomorrow and see what they quote.

 

[patricks]

IM in sydney. Not yet cant be bothered the noise is gone after 30 seconds i wil get round to doing it tho eventually

 

[Shane _O]

Ahh, my noise is constant so i'm thinking mine are proper seized.

I'll update on here with cost on lifters if I get a good price from IRL.

 

[patricks]

Ah not good then. Shame, its a damn good engine and pretty much indestructible if looked after. Yeah please do let us know..........

 

[vocky]

is it the lifters or the big ends ?

Normally a low oil level kills the conrod bearings on the crank first with these engines.

 

[Shane _O]

is it the lifters or the big ends ?

Normally a low oil level kills the conrod bearings on the crank first with these engines.

Its a pretty distinct top end tap. No doubt there may have been some damage done to the big ends but theres no physical indication of that so im leaving it as it is for now.

 

[vocky]

it's not usually very good if it's top end oil starvation

 

[Stu66]

I saw on a previous thread you guys were talking about these lifters.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-GM-ECOTE...ice-/111396481222?hash=item19efbf68c6&vxp=mtr

Are these compatible for a stock Z22SE? They are a decent price.

I'll second Shane's request as I need some of these too - are these good for Z22SE?
Just stripped my Zafira's head, and found a few lifters need replacing so will do the lot while the top's off - this time, i.e. wish I'd done it last time it was off.

I'm going to do full valve replacement too as its only about a hundred bucks extra with the head gasket kit.
are these a good buy? "http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131552807768?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT"

Shane: The guys on this forum will always point you in the right direction and to good suppliers like AutoVaux in UK (just to name one as I've used them a few times now).
I recommend stay way-clear of Holden stealer-ships unless its only a few bucks and not worth the OS' freight. They're a disgusting ripoff considering the parts come from the same source. If you're taking timing gear off to even replace one lifter, and if there's slightest chance you're keeping the car, then do the lot: inc. both chain kits and w/pump while you're there.
BTW: check these guys "obsoleteparts_australia" for surplus new GM Holden parts. I just bought a brand-new bare head for $200, which the local stealer quoted $4500.
Cheers Stuart

 

[patricks]

According evocarlos they are. If memory serves me right he has a set in his supercharged saab engine. They will fit any gm ecotec from 2002 onward i believe.

I recommend stay way-clear of Holden stealer-ships unless its only a few bucks and not worth the OS' freight. They're a disgusting ripoff considering the parts come from the same source.

Yep! Just got myself gm rear shocks, front shocks, bushings and drop links landed in Australia from autovaux for $690 and Holden wanted $1600

 

[Stu66]

According evocarlos they are. If memory serves me right he has a set in his supercharged saab engine. They will fit any gm ecotec from 2002 onward i believe.



Yep! Just got myself gm rear shocks, front shocks, bushings and drop links landed in Australia from autovaux for $690 and Holden wanted $1600

Sweet...should suck the road like its on rails. Might order me some of them lifters then, thanks. Frickin' Holden man, they wonder why no-one buys their Crappa-dores too.

 

[patricks]

Yep the deterioration is so gradual with shocks and suspension that u don't notice how much until u replace them! Feels like new again! Mind me asking why ur doing the head?

 

[Stu66]

Mind me asking why ur doing the head?

Bought a 2nd hand one 3yrs ago from Mexico - good price and arrived the same day as a box of chain kits and other bits from AutoVaux.
A little crack around a plug near EGR, would gradually seep oil, but not a big issue and didn't intend replacing the head, until I found the cam problem recently.
Decided if I'm to strip it, new valves and lifters is better than cleaning up the old ones, given I don't know how good they are, and extra $200 for shiny new head is small cost for large benefit in future whether I keep or on-sell: but must be glutton for punishment as last time I said I would sell it afterwards but here again looking for advice and tips 3 yrs later

 

[patricks]

Lol its kinda hard to sell once u put all the effort and dollars into it thats for sure. I was strongly considering getting a mercedes r170 slk convertible this year but then i spent money on the astras suspension i thought bugger it i may as well enjoy it more. Even if i do buy the merc, i still think i wont sell the astra its hard to justify buying something else when it just keeps on going and going and going. I told myself i would sell the astra when the engine starts to smoke, i said that when i hit 300,000km but she still hasn't started to smoke and i'm about to hit half a million km......

 

[Stu66]

Lol its kinda hard to sell once u put all the effort and dollars into it thats for sure. I was strongly considering getting a mercedes r170 slk convertible this year but then i spent money on the astras suspension i thought bugger it i may as well enjoy it more. Even if i do buy the merc, i still think i wont sell the astra its hard to justify buying something else when it just keeps on going and going and going. I told myself i would sell the astra when the engine starts to smoke, i said that when i hit 300,000km but she still hasn't started to smoke and i'm about to hit half a million km......

Mmm Topless Merc'd be a nice cruiser. A bit same here with the Zaffy. Can't beat it for p**s-easy driving and all the room it has in back when you fold all the seats. Better than a ute and you can fill it with s**t from Bunnings. Missus loves the Zaffy even more than the 2012 Mondeo 2l TD we just bought her, so I reckon she can keep the Zaffy and we'll ditch the Mondeo and I can buy a 4WD for me and my young bloke to take out bush I just hope I can pull off the head fix and have it all still work at the end.

 

[patricks]

Yeah ive heard good things about Zaf's, apparently very car like in the way they drive with loads of room. Im sure u will get the job done OK. Good luck with it........