high idle after fitting 2.4 inlet and 6.8mm TB

chris_uk

well if thats all you have done like i think you said on vx220.org, then use 145 as a ballpark figure, and now get it rr'd to see wha tyou get 🙂

be interesting to know 🙂

gozer_1_4

now i got a new problem... damn
After having tested for several km the car, i have noticed that the engine doesn't revs good, i mean... sometimes when i ask for more power, the engine reacts slowly or does not react at all for a second, then finally reacts.
In particular if i press all the accelerator, the engine reacts slowly, but if i ask for power slowly, it reacts good.
It seems to me that the air fuel ratio it is not correct, maybe it is running too rich?
I'm starting thinking i've wasted my money...
will it be worthed to buy a fuel pressure regulator? 🙁
like this one http://cgi.ebay.it/Regolatore-pressione-benzina-x-auto-da-competizione_W0QQitemZ250253145575QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250253145575&_trkparms=72%3A758%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ebayphotohosting

Muncher83

I'm having limp home issues with the 2.4 manifold and 68mmTB.

A mate who works at Ford is trying to help me and has asked me this, any ideas?

"you need to know if it's the voltage going out of spec due to a spike, or if it's just the wrong voltage because of the increased air flow causing the reading to be out all the way through the range"

vocky

it's the map sensor, it detects the wrong flow compared with the tb opening, so too little throttle for the amount of flow

it just needs the parameter changing, but getting it changed is the problem.

courtenay used a small restrictor between the map sensor and inlet manifold to remove the spike of vacuum which caused the error on the sc conversions fitted with the 68mm tb

gozer_1_4

Muncher83 said:
I'm having limp home issues with the 2.4 manifold and 68mmTB.

A mate who works at Ford is trying to help me and has asked me this, any ideas?

"you need to know if it's the voltage going out of spec due to a spike, or if it's just the wrong voltage because of the increased air flow causing the reading to be out all the way through the range"

Yes, as Mak experienced in his tests, and as vocky said, it is the map sensor.
My technician soled the problem... with another sensor, he had just changed the map sensor, but unfortunately i canìt tell the model he used... i can't understand it. what..

vocky

the new map sensor will have a part number on it, that will help so many people if you could get the part number off the top

cheers..

techieboy

vocky said:
the new map sensor will have a part number on it, that will help so many people if you could get the part number off the top

cheers..

cheers..

Oh, yes please. That would be really handy, if the pressure readings problem could be solved as simply as that.

vocky

just take a pic and post it or ask your mechanic which car it's from 🙂

gozer_1_4

just came back from the garage
162 12360
10045
USA
Delco Electronics
5 vout GND

That is what it is written on that map sensor.
But i have to warn you... my car has no engine limp or trouble codes in the ecu, but it is running really bad now with several holes in the power output.
I don't know if it is due to the map sensor, the wiring of the 68mm tb or the fue pressure.
So it is at your own risk to change the map sensor.

vocky

at least it's something to try, maybe you need a remap now the tb is working

gozer_1_4

vocky said:
at least it's something to try, maybe you need a remap now the tb is working

nobody can remap this damn ecu here in italy and i still can't figure out why... notsure.gif

vocky

ok some map info;

LOAD MAP
PERCENTAGE ; VOLTAGE; 1-BAR ; 2-BAR ; 3-BAR
0 ; 0.00 ; 10 ; 8.8 ; 3.6
5 ; 0.25 ;15; 18 ; 17
10 ; 0.50 ; 20 ; 28 ; 33
15 ; 0.75 ; 24 ; 38 ; 48
20 ; 1.00 ; 29 ; 48 ; 64
25 ; 1.25 ; 34 ; 58; 80
30 ; 1.50 ; 39 ; 68 ; 96
35 ; 1.75 ; 43 ; 78 ; 111
40 ; 2.00 ; 48 ; 88 ; 127
45 ; 2.25 ; 53 ;98 ; 143
50 ; 2.50 ; 58; 108 ; 159
55 ; 2.75 ; 62 ; 118 ; 174
60 ; 3.00 ; 67 ; 128 ; 190
65 ; 3.25 ; 72 ; 138 ;206
70 ; 3.50 ; 77 ; 148 ; 222
75 ; 3.75 ; 81 ; 158 ; 237
80 ;4.00 ; 86 ; 168 ; 253
85 ; 4.25 ; 91 ; 178 ; 269
90 ; 4.50 ; 96 ;188 ; 285
95 ; 4.75 ; 100 ; 198; 300
100 ; 5.00; 105 ; 208 ; 315

gozer_1_4

vocky said:
ok some map info;

LOAD MAP
PERCENTAGE ; VOLTAGE; 1-BAR ; 2-BAR ; 3-BAR
0 ; 0.00 ; 10 ; 8.8 ; 3.6
5 ; 0.25 ;15; 18 ; 17
10 ; 0.50 ; 20 ; 28 ; 33
15 ; 0.75 ; 24 ; 38 ; 48
20 ; 1.00 ; 29 ; 48 ; 64
25 ; 1.25 ; 34 ; 58; 80
30 ; 1.50 ; 39 ; 68 ; 96
35 ; 1.75 ; 43 ; 78 ; 111
40 ; 2.00 ; 48 ; 88 ; 127
45 ; 2.25 ; 53 ;98 ; 143
50 ; 2.50 ; 58; 108 ; 159
55 ; 2.75 ; 62 ; 118 ; 174
60 ; 3.00 ; 67 ; 128 ; 190
65 ; 3.25 ; 72 ; 138 ;206
70 ; 3.50 ; 77 ; 148 ; 222
75 ; 3.75 ; 81 ; 158 ; 237
80 ;4.00 ; 86 ; 168 ; 253
85 ; 4.25 ; 91 ; 178 ; 269
90 ; 4.50 ; 96 ;188 ; 285
95 ; 4.75 ; 100 ; 198; 300
100 ; 5.00; 105 ; 208 ; 315

ehm ehm... sorry, but what is it? notsure.gif 😃

vocky

it shows how a 1 bar compares with a 2 bar + 3 bar sensor, so at 100% a 2 bar is approx double the 1 bar and the 3 bar triple

what is required is probably a 1.5 Bar map sensor

I couldn't find any info on the ac delco 16212360

the standard 16212460 is a (213-331) 1 Bar map sensor

2 bar is a 213-1632

Muncher83

Interesting, is the ECU expecting any kind of signal back from MAP sensor or is it just measuring the voltage which it returns?

Muncher83

Something I don't understand vocky, as the intake manifold is a vacuum, why is a sensor over 1 bar needed?

Also, if the TB says for the opening the voltage should be 4.2V and the sensor sends back 3.2 V the ecu says fook off?

vocky

I expect it's 1 bar of vacuum it can measure notsure.gif

gozer_1_4

vocky said:
it shows how a 1 bar compares with a 2 bar + 3 bar sensor, so at 100% a 2 bar is approx double the 1 bar and the 3 bar triple

what is required is probably a 1.5 Bar map sensor

I couldn't find any info on the ac delco 16212360

the standard 16212460 is a (213-331) 1 Bar map sensor

2 bar is a 213-1632

That is what i can read on that sensor... i don't know anything else. 🙁

rabidh

Maybe you could find out where your technician bought it from? It's amazingly encouraging that you have the engine running without codes (albeit with a slightly messed up map)...

I'm pretty certain it's not spikes, but the actual vacuum reading that causes our problem. I fitted my electronic ITBs a few weeks ago, and even with restrictive piping to the sensor the 1514 came up immediately 🙁

Speedster mentioned something similar to this mod over on the VX220.org.uk forums:

Here's A Theory
You can use the MAP sensor off a SC 2.0L Saturn Redline with a set of 'larger' injectors delivering more fuel per pulse.
The MAP sensor has a different pressure profile and will send the ECU around half the voltage of the normal NA unit allowing you to run without going into limp mode. All you've got to do is calculate your injector sizing. On a NA the theory is that the SC MAP sensor matched with injectors delivering near double the amount of fuel should be near 'normal' running (under certain engine conditions).

gozer_1_4

rabidh said:
Maybe you could find out where your technician bought it from? It's amazingly encouraging that you have the engine running without codes (albeit with a slightly messed up map)...

I'm pretty certain it's not spikes, but the actual vacuum reading that causes our problem. I fitted my electronic ITBs a few weeks ago, and even with restrictive piping to the sensor the 1514 came up immediately 🙁

Speedster mentioned something similar to this mod over on the VX220.org.uk forums:

Here's A Theory
You can use the MAP sensor off a SC 2.0L Saturn Redline with a set of 'larger' injectors delivering more fuel per pulse.
The MAP sensor has a different pressure profile and will send the ECU around half the voltage of the normal NA unit allowing you to run without going into limp mode. All you've got to do is calculate your injector sizing. On a NA the theory is that the SC MAP sensor matched with injectors delivering near double the amount of fuel should be near 'normal' running (under certain engine conditions).

I'll ask him as soon as i go back to his place, phone him it's useless.
By the way, as soon as i receive the aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, i'll go back to his place.
The problem is... the fellow selling this fpr is not available right now...
tel..

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