Cam Chain In One Piece But Jumped Teeth

BobC

Hi there I am new to this forum after buying Z22SE SRi 150 sadly not long after purchase it stopped :shock: After several hours of reading through the excellent info on this site I contacted Vauxhall, the car is December 2000 registered having covered just 51000 miles. In a nut shell they very politely told me to Foxtrot Oscar stating that Field Remedy 1532 refers to Broken Chains not one's that have Jumped Teeth also saying that the vehicle was over 6 years old.

So if I can pick some of your brains, I have removed the Cam Cover, 4 of the Inlet Camshaft Rocker/Rollers are displaced and it looks to me that it has snapped the top off of 2 or 3 of the cam followers /hydraulic lifters. Interesting that all the damage seems to be on the Inlet Camshaft all of the Exhaust side looks to be intact and where it should be. I haven’t as yet checked to see how far out the valve timing actually is.

So here's the crunch what are the chances of it not bending Valves? (Could I get that Lucky). Do I take a chance and put a Chain Kit on it with my fingers crossed or am I shooting my self in the foot. As an after thought if the valves have hit the Pistons, what is the likely hood of further damage to the bottom end of Valve Guides?

Your comments would be very much appreciated with your wealth of experience with these engines.

Thanks in advance Bob C notsure.gif

vocky

welcome to the site and sorry to hear of your chain failure :roll:

you have bent some valves 🙁

secondly what speed was the engine at when the chain failed, high revs 4k ish will mean damaged pistons :cry:

you will require another head at the very least, it's not worth repairing them.

MarkDj has a mate selling a complete z22se, might be worth a PM to find out the price notsure.gif

have a look on ebay

BUT, change the timing chain on your new engine BEFORE fitting it, much easier and then the engine will be safe for 100,000 miles 🙂

BobC

you have bent some valves 🙁

I will have to ask the wife ref the speed as she was driving it when it all went Pear Shaped??

So I assume they always bend valves? Why do you say that it's not worth repairing the Head do they self distruct that badly?notsure.gif

Can you get the Valve Lifters out of the head or it specialist engineering job? :roll:

Is it worth me having another go at Vauxhall as it is very low mileage? and the rest of the car is immaculate.

Failing that I suppose I had best get my Uniform out and rip the Head off to see what sort of damage has occured! Wonderfull !! :cry:

vocky

the valves always hit the pistons in the z22se 🙁

at tickover failure - you can usually get away with replacing the bent valves

at low revs failure - you can usually get away with piston damage, but the valve guides will require replacing along with the bent valve

at medium revs failure - the pistons get squashed and it will burn oil, the head gets damaged beyond economic repair (new head = £500)

at high revs - new engine :cry:

Can you get the Valve Lifters out of the head or it specialist engineering job?

the hydraulic lifters just pull out, the same engineering as any other head dunno..

Why do you say that it's not worth repairing the Head do they self distruct that badly ?

add up the price of new valve guides, valves and any other damage - new head £500 :roll:

BobC

the valves always hit the pistons in the z22se 🙁

at tickover failure - you can usually get away with replacing the bent valves

at high revs - new engine :cry:

Cheers Mate you are cheering me up the more the day goes on!! cheers..

I think I will have one more go noth. at our dear friends at Vauxhall who still rekon there is not an inherent problem the timing chain. Not quite sure what planet they are on!!

Failing that it's Head Off to have a look. I will keep you posted on the continuing horror story. cryb..

Thanks for prompt responses

vocky

vauxhall will try to deny there's a problem, but we all know there is :evil:

ask them to explain why they revised the oil jet if there's no issue with it.

ps: sorry to be the bearer of bad news :roll:

but I get used to it when timing chains are involved cheers..

joey

If its jumped teeth then there is a chance that the tensioner is at fault or a chain guide has broken up. I would ask to see the service manager talk to him explaining the above, there is a chance that there will be a contribution from vxl. At the end of the day its down to how the service manager puts your case to vxl as to wether they contribute. Good luck, and welcome to the site.

Ian

This is terrible news mate!! Im really sorry and hope you get it sorted soon :?

benny

usally they fail thus .......> the oil feed that we all know and love stops suplying oil to the chain the chain then has no lube so wears /goes slack (you cant see with the naked eye the wear is minimal but over the length of a chain adds up) thus allowing for a wave sensation on its run on the cams and crank and the guides thus putting more strain on these parts the tenstion is first to fail allowing the chain to jump teath (have seem many a car with missfire that cannot be fixed that have jumped teath but still run) some times the guides give way (these can some times not give major engine damage) ive found a load broken and loose in the timing case . the other way they fail is the oil feed stops the oil to the chain and it streches and wears till the weakest link breaks and thus giveing possible engine damage ....as for vx paying out you will have to see what they say and dont hold your breath mate ....ps dont tell them i told you how they fail lol ..just baffle em with bull........

BobC

secondly what speed was the engine at when the chain failed, high revs 4k ish will mean damaged pistons :cry:

As an after thought with my wife driving, it probably when bang about 5 RPM before the rev limiter cut in !!!!! csh..

BobC

benny wrote
thus allowing for a wave sensation on its run on the cams and crank and the guides

Thanks Benny, I have been pondering your comments half of the night trying to work out the best course of action, ref do I strip it or do I have another go noth. at Vxl. But from what I have read on this and other forums Vxl they don't seem to be interested especially after you pass the 6 year mark albeit the car has only done 51,000 miles.

I have not yet removed the Cylinder Head but I have had a much closer inspection this morning turning it over by hand via the Crank Pulley. From what I can see 6 Rockers have jumped out, there are 4 bent valves and 2 broken cam followers :cry: all on the inlet side all of the exhaust valves look to be working ok.

What puzzles me notsure.gif is all the damage seems to be on the Inlet Camshaft! Given the fact that the engine rotates in a clockwise direct how has it managed to jump enough teeth to bend valves on the short span of chain between the Exhaust and Inlet Camshafts. The only thing that I can think of is that it went Bang on the over run, then acceleration caused by the whip lash in the chain which would seem to indicate (as you said) that 1 or both of the lower tensioners have broken up.

I have no experience on this engine at all, but is it the norm when they jump teeth for the damage to be confined to the Inlet Camshaft side of the engine?

Would appreciate any further comments / observations that you have made cheers..

vocky

you may find the exhaust valves bent too 🙁

it's really a case of how the chain slips notsure.gif

ie. the inlet cam was trying to open valves and thus had a greater turning pressure, so that cam jumped and the exhaust cam was closing valves so no turning pressure - if you get what I mean notsure.gif

BobC

vocky said:
you may find the exhaust valves bent too 🙁

it's really a case of how the chain slips notsure.gif

if you get what I mean notsure.gif

Yes I do. I have measured as best I can (With the Cams still in place) with a Vernier Gauge from the base of the head and all the exhaust valves seem to be the same height when closed.

However I do understand that the valves could have hit each other in the opening / closing cycle. I will have one more last ditch attempt at the Vxl Maffia 8) (See All Hear All Say F All) tomorrow if I get zero response I will take the head off and have a look. :roll:

Thanks again to everybody for your informed comments and your moral support will keep you posted as it progresses. Still a major pain in the A*SE that I could have done without though! Especially at 51,000 miles ? Life really is a Steep Learning Curve ! Just wish I had done a bit more research on this site before buying the beast.

Thanks again cheers..

benny

lol ..you could just try fitting a chain kit and see if it starts ..........you maybe lucky ....but if it does start can you give me your lotto numbers too lol

BobC

Still waiting on a reply from Vauxhall ! I emailed them on Tuesday quoting all the Field Remedy info and they haven't had the decency to reply as yet 🙁

AnGarrek

BobC said:
Still waiting on a reply from Vauxhall ! I emailed them on Tuesday quoting all the Field Remedy info and they haven't had the decency to reply as yet 🙁

After a fight, VX replaced my chain kit FOC.

I know I've said this before, but after reading these threads, most people make the same mistake

RULE NUMBER 1; DON'T EMAIL VX, IT'S A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME !!!!

Ring VX customer care, not your local dealer.
Don't take no for an answer, but don't loose your rag with them, be polite, but make sure they know you're not going away without them fixing your car !

Tell them you've read all about the problem with the small (and defective) oil jet, and because of a lack of oil your chain has stretched/jumped on the sprockets.

They will tell you your car isn't covered by warranty anymore, but explain you're not asking for warranty work to be undertaken, but for VX to correct a manufacturing defect.

Tell them you want a case number, and you'd like your local dealer to strip the chain covers to investigate this problem.

Please mention this forum, and the field remedy, and don't let them pass you off by saying your car wasn't involved in the recall, because all Vectra B's had the incorrect oil jet.

Read all the posts on the Cam Chain forum, and print off anything you may think is useful, and have it to hand when you ring.

I blagged my free repair by having a GOOD answer for everything they had to chuck at me.

VX know it's a problem, but for every repair done, it costs them £600 +, so if they can wriggle out of it, they will.