Suspected timing chain problem

v6scorpion

So the problem was it was idling rough and making a tick tick tick noise as engine was running, people stated it was timing chain. Anyway ive took apart to get to it and it gets slack when you crank it over by hand between inlet and exhaust sprockets, problem being is i took tensioner out and turned it over again by hand and its knocked out the 4th cams tdc. After ive took off timing chain cover off side and strip to put balance chain on and timing chain on how do i get to get crank and 4th cams at tdc again to correct it all. Massive mistake taking tensioner out and cranking as only seen not to in haynes manual after i had bought it and already done it.

v6scorpion

Haynes manual states 10 degree's btdc so which is it?

IDI_AMIN

If yo0u remove the spark plug closest to the chain area stick an extension bar in there and turn the crankshaft until you see the bar or screwdriver rise to its highest point

You will, if you keep turning crankshaft then see the screwdriver or extension bar start to go down again. this will tell you that you have tdc, which would obviously be at the highest point of crankshaft rotation before it starts to go down again

IDI_AMIN

What the haynes manual tells you is correct. If you turn crankshaft to just slightly before tdc and stop. And then put chain, guides and tensioner in. by the time you do this the crank will move slighly forward.

When you fit the chain, there will be a little slack on the side where the tensioner goes.

v6scorpion

IDI AMIN said:
If yo0u remove the spark plug closest to the chain area stick an extension bar in there and turn the crankshaft until you see the bar or screwdriver rise to its highest point

You will, if you keep turning crankshaft then see the screwdriver or extension bar start to go down again. this will tell you that you have tdc, which would obviously be at the highest point of crankshaft rotation before it starts to go down again

Brilliant cheers

IDI_AMIN

The 10 degrees before tdc that the haynes manual refers to is for when you put guide rails on, the last guide rail you put on is the one that the tensioner presses against. when you have nearly finished the work there should be a little slack on the side you insert the tensioner into. the 10 degrees before tdc is for the little turn you make on the crank to leave the slack on the tensioner side of the chain. The right hand side should be tight as you will turn the crank a little.

The slack on the left hand side will be taken up when you insert the tensioner and it presses against the rail making it all tight.

IDI_AMIN

There also should be a little spot on the crank sprocket. This also tells you where tdc is.
If in the correct position i.e. tdc. The spot on the sprocket should poin to 5 o'clock

This can be a little confusing though if you haven't done the chain before.

Using a screwdriver or bar down the plug hole is, i would say more helpful as it lets you unhderstand better where tdc is.

It can give you an idea if you have moved crank too much and can also let you know how much play you have in either direction, while you are attaching guides and chain

IDI_AMIN

IDI AMIN said:
You will, if you keep turning crankshaft then see the screwdriver or extension bar start to go down again. this will tell you that you have tdc, which would obviously be at the highest point of crankshaft rotation before it starts to go down again

I might also add that you should do this when the chain is removed as you will have knocked the timing out of position when you removed the tensioner and rotated crankshaft.

If you need to turn any of the camshafts to achieve the correct timing position. Then you should do this when the piston or bar is halfway down so that you do not bend a valve by hitting any of the pistons when you do this.

The arrow on the left hand side camshaft sprocket [exhaust cam] will point to 10 o'clock
The arrow on the right hand side camshaft sprocket [ inlet cam] will point to 2 o'clock .
The whit spot on the crankshaft sprocket will point to 5 o'clock

This is where they all need to be positioned to before putting on chain

IDI_AMIN

I also think you need a new timing chain as the other one is stretched. that is why it is dipping between the 2 cams .
It could also be the tensioner is failing

v6scorpion

Yeah ordering timing and balance chain to do job, im not bad on cars but 1st time ever doing a cam belt or cam chain and im on net looking all over for cam positions and crank position before i fully take on job

IDI_AMIN

There's a lot of info on this forum and links to vids, you just need to browse

figo126

i too didn't look forward to doing the chain on my first engine , but after doing it a couple of times its not that bad , the info on here really helped , but after doing it a few times I don't use the timing tools , if you've done timing belts before you will be fine , just have plenty of coffee breaks ,,,,,

vocky

have a read of this thread https://z22se.co.uk/threads/how-2-fit-cam-chains.10042/

v6scorpion

Got all timing chain off today and its cloyes kit like the tutorial i watched on youtube, if this is original then 110k a lot if not been changed since new? And the balance chain tensioner wouldnt push in and out when i took it off? i got it to push in and out after though

v6scorpion

Does anyone change the balance sprockets like in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evJuIsCD6Gs

figo126

yes mate remove balance shafts , use old chain to put around old balance sprockets put into a vice holding the chain tight , undo bolt , change sprocket for new , using the old chain again to toque the new sprocket to the balance shafts,

v6scorpion

Cant remove balance shafts as engine still in car

v6scorpion

Which way on does the spacer cog go that came with genuine gm balance chain kit as i didnt remove when taking old balance chain?

v6scorpion

And how the hell do you get circlip out of the tensioner lol, circlip pliers just keep slipping off when i squeeze lol

figo126

ive never used the spacer , if you didn't remove it off yours you shouldn't need it, which tensioner you talking about , the balance shaft chain ? , should just pull out after fitted ,,