DIY Supercharging

coopa

Anybody here considered ordering one of click ->these<- click?

That's only £1368 + delivery and taxes in proper money 20.gif

Only thing is that it requires a cable throttle, not the fly by wire one that the vx220 has, otherwise I'd be sorely tempted. (In fact there is a guy on the vx220 forums doing a conversion to cable throttle and Emerald ECU, so depending on his success I might have a go.)

I must admit to having no idea as to why this wouldn't work on the Astra/Vectra/etc, so what's putting you potential tuning gods off?

/If Courtenay can do it etc...

vocky

you could still use the electric throttle 🙂

courtenay basically use this kit for their conversion, but probably buy the parts seperate from gm

the biggest problem is the ecu, the usa ecu is different to the uk version

a stand alone ecu would be ideal for the sc kit, just need someone to sell a map notsure.gif

I did try to buy the gm kit, but it wasn't released then.

Now I think throttle bodies will be easier, as I've got the perfect set up for them.

coopa

On a cost per horsepower basis though can the throttle bodies compete?

Thorney's not released official prices or power figures yet but to acheive a target of, say, 200 bhp, from the hints he has given there won't be much change out of £6k.

200 bhp is the number generally quoted by people as the power that the would like, and the extra torque of the supercharger wouldn't go amiss, still seems a bargain to me for anyone looking to start from a stock setup.

I think the Emerald and other standalone ECU's come with some 'get you going' maps that you can use as a foundation for mapping the car. They won't give groundbreaking performance but won't destroy your engine either!

vocky

I must admit the tb's are quite expensive compared to an imported sc kit

I've done all the work on my z22se myself and the engine probably owes me £1500, but to fit a sc would only require swapping the cams to standard, so either option is still available

the ecu mapping is the main problem with either a turbo or sc conversion

the sc does give good performance gains, but I would like to see the wheel hp figures of the courtenay sc conversion and the tms tb's conversion from the same rolling road on the same day what..

in the states the 2.0 sc is only 205 bhp at the fly, so I wonder what the true fly figure is on a 2.2 engine notsure.gif

coopa

For a _£2K outlay I would be very happy with >200hp!

Thorney quoted me £2500 for cams/porting to get me in the region of 170bhp!

Are those figures for the US spec engine not based on having a fairly restrictive exhaust system as well? I would have thought a free flowing system on a 2.2 would produce much better gains. I don't think the kit includes a charge cooler though so would not be quite as extreme as the Courtenay Stage 2.

Don't Courtenay also reduce the compression as part of the sc conversion? I wonder if this is also necessary with this kit and how it is done without changing the pistons. I though skimming the head was a no no on OHC engines so fitting a fat head gasket or something may be equally wrong notsure.gif

vocky

My piper cams cost £235 + postage, gaskets etc £200, valves from usa £160, head £0, so quite cheap at £500 ish 😃

but a decent ported head would cost £1000, schrick cams £600, so £2500 fitted is also quite cheap :shock:

the usa fuel is lower octane and courtenay use a smaller drive pulley, so the 2.2 should give better performance, but I would just like to see the real difference between the two conversions in at the wheel figures notsure.gif

for me to fit a sc I would have to do the following;

change conrods - eagle
change pistons - lower compression
replace head - saab 'sand cast'
add a charge cooler - iirc the inlet manifold just has the pipes blanked off

so I'm considering importing a 2.4 vvt, fitting lotus turbo tb's and a stand-alone ecu

all that and I haven't even heard from 'cp' for a while, I must be crazy rofl..

coopa

:lol:

It was clipping_point that used to start me off on these mad schemes as well!

Looking at the GM performance build manual all the conrods / pistons etc are only necessary of you are going for massive power increases - maybe you are!

Someone has yet to convince me of the merits of a ported Ecotec head, especially with regard to supercharging...

Take 2 members from the VX forum, PaulCP and SamH. Both had the same supercharger conversion done from courtenay. PaulCP had the porting done in a previous tuning guise, however the power curves for both cars once supercharged were identical (near as dammit), and the headline power figure was only 1bhp different IIRC. So the head porting made no odds even at those power levels!

I got quoted £500 for valve seat grinding, and looked at the same cams and gaskets as you, so the end basic result as what Thorney quoted, but for about £1K, admittedly without the lighter flywheel.

I'm not sure the end result (another 15hp ish) really justifies the expense and effort though.

A supercharger on the other hand....

vocky

I think the 2.2 head porting needs to be done in a certain way, I based my head porting on the gm and patriot heads, which seem to be a stage 3 port job 😃

the uk heads seem to be more of a stage 1 port job what..

when I first asked amd about getting the head done, they said it was not possible to port it :shock:

but as you say, £ for bhp, not a good return 🙁

I can remember watching, in my rear view mirror in one of my old Ford's, the piston rings coming out of the exhaust, so since then I prefer to have a bullet proof engine - if possible 😃

the conrod caps will break at 280bhp, so continued abuse at 260bhp will break them eventually. Same as the lost foam head, it can't take high bhp

you've got me thinking about the sc again, might work out cheaper than tb's even with changing the conrods and head

but then again a £1000 2.4 vvt + £200 tb's + emerald ecu 😛

coopa

the conrod caps will break at 280bhp, so continued abuse at 260bhp will break them eventually. Same as the lost foam head, it can't take high bhp

You could always map the ECU to make the engine produce less than its potential...

:roll:

... I'll get me coat.

vocky

LESS.........what does that mean notsure.gif ......... MORE is the way rofl..

I just don't know what to do, get throttle bodies, get a sc kit, get a saab aero engine or just save the money and put it towards a vxT instead what..

tb's = awesome sound and good power
sc = an engine rebuild
saab turbo = possible ecu issues

the 2.4vvt route is currently top of my list 😃

zafman

what hp have you currently got?you seem to have explored
all the possible tuning routes :shock:

vocky

I have no idea what my z22se is kicking out what..

but the only way to get any more power out of it would be tb's, sc or turbo :shock:

it's got a 2.5" exhaust right from the joint on the manifold to the back box, 3" sports cat, 4-2-1 stainless manifold, +1mm waisted stem/swirled valves, stage 3 ported head, piper 266 degree cams, ported inlet manifold, 68mm tb, 75mm inlet pipe, k+n panel filter, 80mm airbox inlet, 2 x cold air feeds, removed egr pipe, moved fpr takeoff pipe, moved engine breather pipe to lower section of the airbox

can't think of anything else to do to it rofl..

so thinking of getting a 2.4 vvt, stage 3 the head, piper one off regrind to the cams, lotus 2.2 turbo throttle bodies and a stand alone ecu drool.gif

the 2.4vvt is 175bhp standard, so already 30bhp more than the 2.2

Blue_2_2

What is the fpr take off pipe?

coopa

Fuel Pressure Regulator?

vocky

ordered the haynes engine management programming book today 😃

think I need to explore the 2.4 route :shock:

Daz

Seen a few of them on ebay in the states...just the shipping etc that will bump up the price i think..

coopa

Yes I think if I got one of these I'd have to smuggle it in somehow notsure.gif

vocky

if I went to the states I would stick a sc kit in my luggage :shock:

the 2.4 vvt engine's are around $1200-$1800, that's £630-£950

need to find a cheap way to transport it to the uk, duty will be £140 - £350

so £770-£1300 + transport notsure.gif

so similar price to the sc kit

vocky

so, if you used the emerald ecu as a piggy back for another set of injectors, fitted eagle rods and a set of lower compression pistons, the sc conversion would be the best route to 200+ bhp notsure.gif

and if you went to the usa on hols or work, the sc kit could be hand luggage drool.gif

coopa

Can a second set of injectors be installed in the SC manifold? I thought another set of injectors came as part of the kit...

I looked into Megasquirt as a cheap way to get into programmable ECU stuff but it looks as though the current system has trouble handing wasted spark ignition coils, and some other ignition system has to be used.

I do go the states quite regularly with work but with US airport security being what it is at the moment I can see them having a coronary if they saw an SC kit in your holdall rofl..

I think I'm going with the cams route for the moment sleep..