Z22SE ticking/knocking

RichB

Hi folks,

First, apologies if I've stuck this in the wrong subforum (it might turn out to be a bit cammy; I don't know enough about this engine business!). The car's a 53 plate Astra SRi 2.2 (late 2003) on 107k miles.

I was minding my own business driving up the A34 a few weeks ago when the engine started making a rattle. As I pulled over and stopped the engine the oil warning light flickered on, and I called out the breakdown people. The guy seemed adamant it was the head gasket, and I was a little sceptical as I had a lot of still-red coolant and no mayo around the filter (just a little hint in the cap) but I figured he's seen hundreds of these and I've seen about none.

So, in good faith I get the head gasket replaced (and the head ground), and the noise is still there. The guy doing the gasket says there's a couple of sticky lifters and replaces those. The noise remains and now people are just speculating, and I'm seriously out of pocket. I don't want to be spending hundreds of pounds here and there to try to fix it when people don't really know what's wrong with it. As much as I love the car it might be reaching the end of the line, which is a shame because otherwise it is in fine fettle.

About 6 months ago (5000 miles) I had the timing chain, sprockets, balance shaft and hydraulic lifters replaced by Regal Autosport (about £1500, and I figured that would keep me in happy motoring for a good while to come 🙁 ). I've at least got the car back on my driveway now after a gnarly towing session so I can take my time working out what to do with it.

List of speculation so far:

Head gasket (not that)
Hydraulic lifters (not that)
Cam chain / tensioner
Water pump
Oil strainer

I had a hunch that the lifters might not be getting oil, but as I say I'm well out of my depth with this (not even removed the rocker cover before). I thought I would throw it out to you guys in case it means anything to you.

I took a video of the noise once I managed to get the battery all charged up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEpHyvDxwLM

As a "bonus", during this video the engine warning light came on (not been on before), so with some luck I can borrow a laptop early next week and see if the code reveals anything.

Any suggestions gratefully received!

Cheers,

Rich

evocarlos

hey rich
well its still running
looking at the vid to me it sounds like** **Hydraulic lifters have a watch at this one

the sound is the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUltvnxtC1M

you can hear the lifter at startup with no oil then once there primed it goes quite
so maybe your right there not getting oil

RichB

Hey Evocarlos,

Thanks for the response. It does sound pretty similar, although mine feels a bit "lazier" (don't know if that's down to the engine speed or a different number of lifters being thirsty).

Not sure how long I want to run it for though - if the lifters aren't getting any oil at all (and they're all fairly new/working), then it makes me wonder what else in the engine isn't getting oil too! If the entire top end isn't getting anything I'm probably risking cam damage or worse.

Thanks,
Rich

evocarlos

i would not run it as you say there could be risk of damage
i wonder if you oil pump is working ?

RichB

That did cross my mind. Not sure how to check this without ripping too much stuff apart. Things don't look "dry" inside the oil filler cap or the engine around there. The oil is fresh about 2 weeks ago; might be able to have at the filter if I can find a big enough socket and see if there's oil in the neighbourhood.

RichB

Whoops, I should add that the oil warning light wasn't on when I ran it during the video.

vocky

sounds pretty much like the big end bearings and crank are shot, caused by the loss of oil pressure you experienced - which was probably caused by low oil level in the sump.

Just for the record the head gasket failing on a z22se engine is pretty much unheard of, they simply never ever fail - unless you run the engine with no coolant.

£1500 for chains and lifters is quite expensive, genuine parts only cost about £550 and about five or six hours labour o_O

RichB

Ouch; that sounds (a) difficult and (b) expensive to sort! Unfortunately on the HG front I only discovered that after I found these forums (which was after everyone was at a dead end! :/ ).

The labour charge came to £770 for the chain and lifters (+VAT too); that was two separate labour charges on the same job. I think they replaced the lifters after completing the chain swap.

I don't suppose anyone has experience of how much getting the big end/crank sorted might cost? It doesn't sound like a job I can do myself.

Thanks for the info, Vocky.

MikeS

sounds bottom end to me distinctive dull knock, if it is then it is a new engine

RichB

Thanks Mike,

I'm starting to get the feeling this is going to be pricey; a new engine is probably going to cost me about the same as a new car! I see a few ebay engines about the place for less, not sure if there's a reasonably priced warrantied refurb supply/fitter in the Southampton/Winchester area. I'll have a look around.

h4rri

I've been looking at engines recently as I fancy a Z20LET / LEH and the going rate for a Z22SE seems to be £350-600 for a decent low mileage engine.

I have bought a 'warrantied' engines before and it blew within 15 miles, they didn't cover the coolant, oils and filters etc wasted in the swap. Bought an engine from my local scrapyard and that went in a dream and took a serious beating.