smoke on deceleration???

si_c1978

that would make sense!

is it a sausage like object on the block, im sure thats the docs next target.

to answer your question matt, i managed to drive home @ atmosphere or below home (10miles) not easy on our roads!
i hit 6psi on the hill before my house and that was the only puff i had. same this morning. exept maybe the last 2 miles where i had a little puff here and there (more up's on the way to work!)

the mrs is in munich so i have the vectra all weekend so ill have it apart this avo, get over my hangover tomorrow and start work. :thumbup:

rushy:- we suspect high cam case pressure no vacuum on opening oil filler cap. not breathing hard thro' dipstick either.

gotta be said thanks for the support guys! :thumbup:

si_c1978

righto i blocked the centre breather last week, no ill effects. no better/marginaly better,
i have noticed oil from the filler cap on me rocker cover recently too which confirms high cam pressure.
my catch tank turned up at the weekend but i havent had a chance to fit it untill today.
its not been driven yet but its certainly not chucking out oil while sat on the spot.
what was odd was when i stopped reving and returned to idle the idle was much smoother but i noticed small amounts of smoke exiting the filter on top of the catch tank??????? notsure.gif
i have the tank interupting the normal breather setup e.g cam case to tank-tank to cold side of turbo-with an extra breather filter on top.

im thinking this cant be anything really serious anymore and more likely somethings blocked.

the doc referred to the pcv valve. i know this will cause excessive cam/crankcase pressure when stuck, could this be the case?

is it the sausage like object just above my gearbox by the oil cooler(sandwich plate?)

si_c1978

righto!
driving to work this morning for the most part my smoking has cleared up. however i have to find where my excess crankcase pressure is coming from.
i get smoke chuffing from the catch tank filter at idle once i stop (throttle plate shut so little vacuum is availiable to the catch tank.) . sometimes bad enough so i can see it exiting the bonnet via my drivers side headlight :wtf: 🙁

this therefore means im burning oil either in the cam case or in the crankcase???
this is a heavy learning curve for me as i really couldnt have cared less about what happens inside my engine, as im more electricaly and number orientated.

im struggliing to find the location of the pcv valve and have no manual for the engine but thats my next suspect. that or a blocked breather,

i have been invited to the docs surgery but unfortunately its going to be a while till i can afford it as i have a holiday to pay for and a few other expenses to get out of the way first

im now fairly sure its not rings or stem seals.

any help gratefully recieved im trying to dig up as much info as i can so i can start eliminating causes at the weekend.

Matt

si.c1978 said:
i have been invited to the docs surgery

That would probably be your best bet failing anyone on here suddenly coming up with the info.

si_c1978

its going to be a while im afraid like i say me finances just wont allow it at the mo, unfortunately i live in the middle of no-where and need to use the car daily to get to work (about 15miles of very hilly country roads so im under heavy load wether i spool the turbo up or not.)
obviously im not keen on running it at the mo but have no choice than to plug on and keep topping the oil up weekly.

i dont want catastrophic engine failiure (although this would give me something to do other than bash cod!)

should have left the poor bugger alone instead of keeping on pushing the power up.

si_c1978

right the saga continues :crazy:

http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101304

i think ive found enough to work with for now, i think its #1 crankcase ventilation cannister that im interested in
im not sure but i think it would appear to have something to do with the pipes that wrap around the chain side of the engine just tucked under the fuel lines.

i know i have mentioned these before and believe i said one or both of thes two lines are definately redundant on the engine side. i believe they are still connected to source (e.g the inlet and underside of the turbo (if im seeing the crazy line sketch correctly!!) then blanked off near the inlet manifold.

what are the chances (if i still have it) that the z22se valve will do the same job?

vocky

all that does is open and close a small pipe to the inlet, you could probably switch it with your ecu, but I'm not sure when it should be open (possibly at cruise conditions/light load)

are the pipes below the fuel lines coolant pipes for the turbo dunno..

si_c1978

no m8 one comes from the inlet and (i believe) should carry on to a small canister that should live under the inlet manifold. what ever that is its not there,
its been removed and made redundant before i got the engine.
you are right tho it is under light load/or when (i believe) its at idle therefore not enough vacuum to allow the built up pressure to leave the camcase.
im not sure if i can set it up to run on my ecu but i could just hardwire it to a 12v supply so its always open.

in any case im going to lift it up when io get home as there is a crankcase breather under the exhaust manifold and ill be able to inspect those redundant pipes a bit better.

worst case scenario is i run some stop smoke (i know this is a total pikey fix) thro the oil and drain and re-fill.
last thing i want is engine failiure however from what ive read the turbo vanes will probably be gooosed from the oil passing thro it when it was bad.

also on what ive read could this possibly be blow back past the rings into the crankcase? hence it taking 20 mins befrore it starts to guff.
ill let it get to temp and start building pressure then open the filler cap to see if it smells of fuel/exhaust fumes.

can i remove the pcv valve entirely if it is there or is that likely to try to pump oil into my inlet?

thanks for your help vocky! :thumbup:

si_c1978

:problem: pretty sure a bog standard oil change shouldt just go "splunk" half way thro.......

once shes finished draining and ive poured some fresh oil thro her ill have to investigate my old sump oil contents :cry:

pics to follow.

si_c1978

ok ive had a delve around, the oil was black but no emulsion (the tub had some old oil in it already), the oil filter is again black but fine.
the only thing i could find in the tub was a strange piece of rubber which looks like it must have sealed a slot????

what the hell is that????? it was the only thing in there except crap that had blown in to the tub like leaves. notsure.gif

si_c1978

ive got the cam cover off and all seems fine on the surface.
im convinced i have no blocked breathers except the one that has been blocked deliberatly to the inlet manifold.
there has been no shortage of oil to the top end (after all thats part of my problem!)
the bottom of the 2 hoses mentioned before is from the turbo oil trap and is connected and not part of the problem.
the 2nd is still a mystery.
that bit of rubber is odd.
if i remove the head how much am i going to be able to tell about the condition of my rings etc?

Daz

U wont see the rings unless you pull the pistons out si.... and that means dropping the sump off too....

si_c1978

engine out job then?
i was hoping the bores would show any signs of damage.
im just thinking its impossible to avoid load around here so i might just accept the steep learning curve and get on and do it rather than destroy my hard work.
the father in law will be about to lend a hand so im confident itll be fine.
i would love to visit the doc but dont want to risk the drive.

Daz

Can be done in situ i think....,but never had the bottom of one, so cant say 100%

The bores may show some wear, but that wont give a true indication of the rings being fubbar..

si_c1978

i need to lay my hands on a pressure tester tomorrow.
can the oil pressure control valve on the pump casing get stuck on these?

si_c1978

ive been out this morning and removed the oil pressure control valve assembly, it just consists of a spring, piston and end cap.
it was all relatively free and wasnt too difficult to remove the piston, a quick clean up and its as free as a bird with little to no play, so i can rule that out.

it is located on the chain case by the oil pump and can be accessed easiest by lifting the car and reaching under from the drivers side front wheel arch/front bumper with a 10mm alan key.

back to reading up on stuff now but it is now looking like im definately getting something more synister/blow thro the piston rings.

i want to avoid tipping additives in to my sump at all costs but at the same time desperately need my car. i have a cylinder pressure tester turning up later which i know should have been one of my first checks but our nearest place to get one is in exeter which is not a trip i fancy at the mo.

im going to have to start weighing my options soon.
i can have the mrs's car for a while but its not very convienient.

a rebuild would be nice but its a handfull of work 🙁 .

theres a lesson to be learnt here about getting carried away!

there is a large metal pipe that runs from the turbo to the crankcase which i presume is the oil return pipe for the turbo, can anything happen to the turbo to pressurise this?

vocky

you may have damaged your ringlands by poor mapping dunno..

a compression test will reveal it

si_c1978

that was my initial fear, although i didnt run overly lean 13:1 it was too lean for my liking in those driving conditions.
i do wonder wether i maxed out my injectors as even tho the map may not be perfect if anything the contour plot would suggest it should have been rich if anything.
cell changes after datalog runs rarely changed dramaticly unless acceleration enrichments have been changed.
on the day in question i had actually increased acc/enrchmnt to make sure the extra kpa didnt create a lean spot.
it was the third or fourth run i was happy my cells had settled down and i guessed id tackle charmourh hill out of bridport on the A35,
its a long hill, high load, high boost, high revs and about 4 miles probably wasnt a good idea.
i didnt set out for a destruction test but there you go.....
i always knew id pushed her a bit hard.
i was hoping to get away lightly.

si_c1978

re-filled the old beast yesterday knowing there wasnt much left to check other than major issues,
the mrs old man did the compression test and there did seem to be an issue but the mrs's old man didnt seem to think it was exceptionally bad and suspects ive glazed my bores,
i let him make the decission and we unfortunately decided to go ahead and see what som wynn's supercharge (for doffus's like me who have pushed too hard on the rings and valves) she still gives off a puff now and then but certainly ain't chuffing like thomas tank engine from the filler cap now, although there is still a little pressure.
the oils done 60miles now and there is no emulsion/contamination.

this does buy me time to decide where to go with it. :thumbup: :think:

vocky

atom x must have a few spare saab pistons if yours are damaged, but whip the head off and drop the sump, then the pistons came be removed to check for damage :thumbup:

I may know of some other spare saab pistons too

« Previous Page Next Page »