z22se Liners

nickb777

anyone know how easy it is to change liners on the z22se engine I am thinking about longevity of my engine at 370+ bhp with standard ones in or the other option would be to find an engine with uprated ones already in and yet another rebuild

ATOM_X

Re: zss2e Liners

nickb777 said:
anyone know how easy it is to change liners on the z22se engine I am thinking about longevity of my engine at 370+ bhp with standard ones in or the other option would be to find an engine with uprated ones already in and yet another rebuild

i have an engine with darton liners bored out to 89mm

liners are imported from states (ebay.com sells genuine) $600 + shipping + import vat
machineshop & engineering costs were £600 + vat

so not a cheap project

nickb777

Re: zss2e Liners

yea not cheap but do-able 😃

TheHood

Re: zss2e Liners

Nick, just in case you don't pick the link up on .org

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Kent ... veQ5fTools

Just need to find someone with the skillz.

exmantaa

Re: zss2e Liners

That's a cheap toolkit, but I assume that fitting Bates or Darton sleeves/liner need some extra machining of your block... notsure.gif

ATOM_X

Re: zss2e Liners

exmantaa said:
That's a cheap toolkit, but I assume that fitting Bates or Darton sleeves/liner need some extra machining of your block... notsure.gif

Correct
that kit is for removal and relpacement of standard liners

To fit darton liners mprecision machining is required

it is better to have the work done by a company experienced in this operation

nickb777

Re: zss2e Liners

Cheers Hood I did think about that I wonder if LSJ liners are the same as ours? either that or I had better keep an eye out for a replacement engine/bottom end with better ones fitted as standard, more research notsure.gif

alanoo

Re: zss2e Liners

I think you should call or mail Bates eng. directly

They are way more experienced than anyone else in Ecotec liners, their liners are actually a bit cheaper than Darton ones and stronger, and as they do loads more than anyone else, machining costs may be less...
Except it will of course need you to source a second hand bottom in the US (or maybe they do have some), but even with the shipping costs from US, I'm sure it can be a good solution, especially when that's the insurance the fitment is perfect.

FLD

Re: zss2e Liners

I've been looking into this recently. I know the UK darton distributor so asked him. In turn he asked mr Darton. There are two liners available, wet and dry liners (although I only found one). The trouble is fitting. It is extremely complicated on these and my US engineer says he spends a lot of time putting right poor installs. If you go for darton liners read the install guide and find someone with the right tooling. There are ways round it to get them in but the right tooling means the right alignment. 600 for the liners and 600 fitting seems standard across the board.

nickb777

Re: zss2e Liners

Think I might just run mine as it is, if the thing fails I will rebuild a new engine with better liners in ( where is the fingers crossed smiley? ) 😃

vocky

I personally wouldn't go past 380bhp on the standard liners because of the sc power drain

ATOM_X

vocky said:
I personally wouldn't go past 380bhp on the standard liners because of the sc power drain

you will have to explain

vocky

standard liners are rated at 400bhp by GM, the sc consumes at least 20 bhp, so 380bhp is the maximum I would advise to run, but then 350bhp would allow a margin of error dunno..

winstar

vocky said:
standard liners are rated at 400bhp by GM, the sc consumes at least 20 bhp, so 380bhp is the maximum I would advise to run, but then 350bhp would allow a margin of error dunno..

I have a bit of a problem with the 400bhp limit stated by GM as what will kill them is cylinder pressure (torque) and temperature. an SC that produces 400bhp at high rpm will stress the liners alot less than a turbo or NOS.

ATOM_X

winstar said:

vocky said:
standard liners are rated at 400bhp by GM, the sc consumes at least 20 bhp, so 380bhp is the maximum I would advise to run, but then 350bhp would allow a margin of error dunno..

I have a bit of a problem with the 400bhp limit stated by GM as what will kill them is cylinder pressure (torque) and temperature. an SC that produces 400bhp at high rpm will stress the liners alot less than a turbo or NOS.

The findings, from the original Bothwell (http://papers.sae.org/2002-01-3354/) "test to destruction" series of test's (which the GM manual reference) were conducted using nos and/or turbo and at no time SC

Therefore I concur that higher bhp figures can be generated using SC with a lesser risk of compromise to liner integrity due to lower cylinder pressures

nickb777

torque on the s/c will be low about 280-290 nowhere nere what a turbo would put out. I expect with the LP pistons over stock, a smaller pulley giving 23.5 instead of the standard 20psi and keeping the revs somewhere near 7500rpm I think 370 maybe 380 should be about right.

cheers for the Link :thumbup:

alanoo

winstar said:

vocky said:
standard liners are rated at 400bhp by GM, the sc consumes at least 20 bhp, so 380bhp is the maximum I would advise to run, but then 350bhp would allow a margin of error dunno..

I have a bit of a problem with the 400bhp limit stated by GM as what will kill them is cylinder pressure (torque) and temperature. an SC that produces 400bhp at high rpm will stress the liners alot less than a turbo or NOS.

Yeah, the only real problem is that the liners are cast, and as always with cast items, there's some random luck in how strong they are.

IMHO, I won't track anything higher than 340 hp with standard liners, but I'm sure some OE liners will be ok for a lot of runs at 450 hp for short time drag races... Just not the same thing we do :shifty:

alanoo

Oh by the way, as stupid as I am, I forgot to correct this, but in the very original GM racing ecotec build publication, the stock liners were OK to 650 bhp when fitted with the stainless O rings and H-11 main and head studs

FLD

alanoo said:
Oh by the way, as stupid as I am, I forgot to correct this, but in the very original GM racing ecotec build publication, the stock liners were OK to 650 bhp when fitted with the stainless O rings and H-11 main and head studs

I dont suppose you have a link to this do you?

slindborg

FLD said:

alanoo said:
Oh by the way, as stupid as I am, I forgot to correct this, but in the very original GM racing ecotec build publication, the stock liners were OK to 650 bhp when fitted with the stainless O rings and H-11 main and head studs

I dont suppose you have a link to this do you?

I may have a copy on a backup drive somewhere at home, I'll have a look soonish