HELP ME timing issuses!!

Matt

hey im fitting new chains to a mates car for him ive fitted both ballancer and timing . the problem ive found is it rattles when the revs are lifted above tick over . its sort of a slapping noise of the chain . i thought it would just be a mistake somwhere but ive been over it and over it time and time again making sure everythings right and timed corectly and it is everything is tight ive even had a friend come and check over everthing too and it seems right to him aswell . the tensioner is tensioning i have checked

has anyone had this problem im completly stumped . totaly out of idea's dunno..

your helps apprecitaed

thanks phil

benny

have you tightened the cam bolts ? ......... you 100%the tenstioner has engaged

Matt

yes and yes im %100 sure

john2666

have you replaced the guide rails, particularly on the cam to crank chain? if so have you tightened the bolts up properly, the guide rail on the right of the engine has 2 bolts in it, are they both tightened?

Matt

it has both timing and ballencer gm kits fitted all bolts are tight . ive checked them so has a friend . it sounds astho its slapping the top guide thats in the cam cover but is also v noisey when listening to the crank end . head in wheel arch . i have also checked out the oil pump just in case and its still withing spec

john2666

probably worth taking the cam cover off and having a quick look for peace of mind, i know its a pain in the A*se but worth the 18 bolts just to check, also start the engine with the cover off, it doesn't spurt loads of oil out but you will be able to see the top of the chain to see if it is slaking off slightly, worth a try phil

Matt

il give it ago didnt know it wouldnt splut oil everywhere or id have tried it . its all in bits now i gave up after id taken the oil pump off and it was ok . also i ended up with a spare part from the ballencer kit . its like a 8mm thick washer with a woodruf key cut out in it so it will fit ont crank . i didnt remove one so didnt refit . what is it ? also if it is slapping the guide in the can cover what could be the problem any guesses lol

john2666

The only way i guess it could be slapping the top guide is if the top guide has been bent slightly cos the the chain to both cams would have to be tight, if there is a bit of slack between the sprockets then the tensioner on the back of the head may not be pushing the left hand guide rail in enough.
I dont know what the washer is for as i have just done a full timing chain on a z22se and i didn't see one either but i didn't get one in the kit, you can check it out though at the url below. If your top guide rali is buggered i have one you can have

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... GB315GB316

benny

im sorry to say this mate i would bet money the tenstioner hasnt poped out ...have you removed it and seen it extended ..? watch it dont all fall apart when you remove it .. i would wind it out till it is almost out but not removeing it the tenstioner needs to be tight if it goes loose when undoing i would say it hasnt poped .. there can also be a problem with it you may need to remove it and strip it down it may have a crack in the lower half on the inner part ...

Matt

well its not in any pics i can find on that site . dont recon its bent in anyway its brandspanking i could allways try the parts i removed lol . really stumped cant think what it could be other than some sort of tensioner fail . how does the ballencer tensiner work has the oil pressure from behind got anything to do with it ? or simply works on spring pressure and no return

phil

Matt

benny said:
im sorry to say this mate i would bet money the tenstioner hasnt poped out .

its been out everytime ive removed it . im thinking about puting the old one back in to make sure this ones not a lame one . i take it uve never heard of this then benny . on another note this engine is totally black inside its like old cooking oil thats been used too much i forget the word used to describe it dunno.. just to paint a picture of it lol are any of theses parts oil pressure controlled ? im wondering if anything could be blocked ?

john2666

Hi Phil, yes they are controlled by oil pressure as well as the spring, i would agree with benny, it really does sound like the tensioner isn't doing its job properly.

Matt

il go try again tomoz then . hopefully im just a clutz and kept making the same mistake . somehow im never that luckly . il let ya know how it goes . cheers guys help very appreciated

benny

i have had 2 that were lets say .....f from the factory ...try fitting the old one and see if it makes it all good ....

john2666

Hi Phil, how have you gone on mate, completely finished mine today and took it out, runs beautifully, thank god its over lol

Matt

well john ive been playing again and its still doing it . i got a tensioner from a spare head i have and fited that it looked brandnew .when i removed the other one it came out fully extened it seems to be a noise from the bottom crankcaseing ( behind the oil pump ) . i noticed a mark on the oil pump back where somwthing has been grinding on it . it sits just below the bottom of the black chain rail . at somepoint a chain has run against it . unsure if its mine or the dammaged one im tryin to replace . other than that im still as stumped as yesterday .

phil

Matt

removed everything and refitted it today . its still doing it . it runs fine all timing is right as i checkd it before and after running the engine . what does the oil pump failing and waterpump failing sound like ? . im sure my fitting of the parts is fine ive done it before and havent had this problem. wondering if crank has endflowt which could be causing it to go slack on power stoke . or possibly causing the rattle and hiding a bottom end knock as in the 2500+ range it sounds just like a diesel

cheers phil

benny

has the crank woodruff key moved and has rode up and catching the rear of the block behind the balance shaft pulley .

Matt

nope its sitting flush as normal . had it out today and looked it over